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Snake Vs. Nepenthes?

I'm the proud owner of a baby Coastal Carpet Jaguar Python.
jag2.jpg

He will get to be around 9 feet long and need a fairly large enclosure. Along with the other plants, I would like to add a Nepenthes in there. This is where you guys, the nep experts, come in...

First question I have is what would happen should the little guy decide to drink out of the pitcher? Let's ignore the fact that anything I have is still years from that size ;) While we're at it, let's also assume that the Nep can be placed in a low to no snake cruising zone so that it isn't trampled to death.

Second question. Which Nep would be best? The enclosure will be approximately 4-5 feet wide x 3 feet deep x 4-5 feet tall. Lowest possible temp will be 72 degrees F, with a basking spot in the mid 80's to possibly 90's. A night-time drop of 10 degrees could be provided in the basking area. Humidity will be no lower than 30% and most likely stay around 60-70%. Will be fluorescent lighting on top with timers.

Bonus points for suggestions that are hardy enough to withstand a little abuse and/or brings out the color of his eyes:0o:
 
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Hmm. Well. First of all, if this is about the nep eating the snake (which I'm sure you aren't asking), it won't eat it. Second of all, I think it's completely ok for it to drink out of the pitchers. Natives of borneo and other countries use un opened Nepenthes pitchers to drink out of, so if it's harmless to humans, I'm pretty sure it'll be harmless for snakes.

As for the best nep, I suggest intermediates and easy Neps like ventricosa or sanguinea. It might even eat the nectar off the pitcher, but I'm no expert.

Hope this helps!
 
I think that a low-grower like N. ampullaria might be worth considering. I would base my choice on the assumption that, even in a low-traffic zone, the plant will occasionally have a snake crawling over it. So, something compact with multiple growth points seems ideal.
~Joe
 
Capensis - I had read somewhere that the fluid in Nep pitchers may have sedative effects on insects, but had also heard the stories of the pitchers being used to cook food and similar things. So some clarification was needed there.

seedjar - Good call on the amps! I had been thinking of planting in an out of the way spot until it was so large as to have to be on the floor. At that point maybe tie it on a stake and hope the snake doesn't decide to rip the leaves off the stalk. These pythons are climbers, so a vine could end up taking a bit of a thrashing....

How well does the multiple growth point trait of ampullaria exhibit itself in hybrids, like hookeriana?
 
In my opinion there is only one nep that is suited for snake enclosures. That's N.bical. A plant with fangs that drip venom, is there really any other choice?

I don't see any way a nep can harm a snake, there should be no problems with it drinking from the pitcher.
 
Hmm, Seedjar is probably right, amps may be the best choice, although a N. bical would be great...Even though it'll get very big quick.
 
I can see it now...

"Hey cool snake, will it hurt if it bites?"

"Nah, the plant has bigger teeth!"
:-))
 
I'd say any lowland nep based on the conditions and space the enclosure is going to have.

I've heard that the fluid in the pitchers is harmless until the pitcher opens, then it turns into the potentially dangerous digestive fluid. This is just what I've heard, so take it with a grain of salt.

Good luck with the enclosure and snake, it's really beautiful.
 
fantastic snake man. WOW!! :D Yeah! A bical can be a great choice.
 
  • #10
Pitcher fluids aren't dangerous to vertebrates unless they're submersed for a long time. There are any number of invertebrates and vertebrates that make pitchers their home. A snake that will likely be several times the size of the pitchers will not be in any danger from them. Baby snakes? Maybe. But not an adult.
Other plants to consider might be large specimens of the more durable varieties. Can you clarify a bit on your conditions? From the sound of it, you're able to make a temperature drop in the enclosure, but this would be to accommodate a Nep, and not the snake, right? If that's the case, it might be easiest to just aim for a lowlander and provide lowland, constant-temperature conditions. If the snake appreciates cool nights, something like a mature N. sanguinea, or some sturdy hybrid, might be best. If this guy is going to want to climb, just get him something big enough to climb on. A larger Nep trained to a sturdy piece of driftwood will probably keep him happy well into the two-to-three-foot-long range. Or maybe get something branchy like a Dracaena or a Ficus for climbing, and keep the Nep out of the way in a less inviting spot.
~Joe
 
  • #11
A temperature drop at night to around 72 degrees is needed to induce breeding behavior. While a night-drop isn't necessary outside of breeding season, especially one that low, it wouldn't be harmful either. Considering the basking area can reach the mid 90's, a year round night-drop of 10 degrees isn't out of the question. The actual building of this enclosure is still a year or two away, so plenty of time to make changes;)

The humidity on the other hand is going to be pretty stable. I am going to shoot for 60% humidity. That will be maintained just by the amount of ventilation and plants in there. Not going to bother with the misters/foggers, the dart frog keepers can have em. For it to support true highlanders a humidity change would be required too, right?

After looking into the Bical's growing habits, that seems like it would be a good fit actually. Some cool pitchers and vigorous growth. How long could that live happily in an enclosure of that size though? Could it be kept indefinitely with careful pruning and potting?

So far the ampullaria seems to be the best plant it and forget it nep for this project. The only drawback I can see is that it prefers to stay wetter than most others? I would hate for the snake to be in competition for floorspace, how quickly do they spread?
 
  • #12
No, no humidity change is required for highlanders as far as I can tell. You'll probably get a significant variance in relative humidity just from the temperature change. N. bical could probably be maintained in that space indefinitely with care - the trick would be getting it to adulthood. Definitely worth looking into if you have an affordable source of plant material. Once you get one going, I understand that they're fairly vigorous plants. As for N. ampullaria taking up your floor space - I wouldn't worry about it. Your snake will be able to climb over them easily if they ever get to being too big. Whatever species you choose to go with, I suggest keeping it potted and burying the pot in the terrarium. You'll want to be able to remove the plant to maintain it, and lifting a pot out will be much easier than digging up the entire enclosure.
~Joe
 
  • #13
Hey Tom,

Nice Jag! Who produced it?

You should do fine with a Nep in the enclosure assuming you are tanking and not tubbing. I have a N. albomarginata growing in my chondro tank and it does great.

What you will probably want to do is plant the Nep in a pot/holder with a very free draining media and give it a decent misting every day or so. That is how I do my N. albo, gets misted when I give the chondro her nightly spritz.
 
  • #14
as a previous owner of a 6 foot carpet python, my suggestion is one your willing to let it destroy........they are big, active snakes and the chances of it busting up plants in the tank is high..........
 
  • #15
I've always liked Carpet Pythons but perhaps they get a bit to big for my tastes... They are also pretty aggressive too, aren't they?
 
  • #16
Jungles and IJs only get 5-6 feet so they are rather managable, but the coastals and diamonds can get pretty monstrous...


And no they are not very aggressive if you work with them. As babies they can be snappy but as they get older the mellow. My girl is a doll, an energetic doll but a doll none the less.
 
  • #17
the 6 footer i had i purchased as an adult, was a lil skittish from not being handled much but never attempted to bite me.......a guy i know had a pissy one though that led to a blood donation by me that woulda made the red cross proud......but it was a wild caught one that never really settled down.....captive raised ones tend to be sweethearts........
 
  • #18
I had heard before about live plants and snakes not getting along. I'm hoping that careful placement may help with some of that. It just seems a shame to have a big climate controlled area like that and not try a nep in there:) Of course that may not be possible depending on how active he is. Thats why I'm on the hunt for plants now, so they can get some size, and I can figure out in what conditions they grow best for me.

To be honest I have yet to lay hands on him as its too cold for shipping. He's an '08 normal jag from Australian Addictions Reptiles. When I asked them about size, there best guess was around 8 feet for their male coastals. This will be my second snake, big step up from the corn snake I've had for the past 18 years :) I wanted something a bit heftier and really liked the surinam boas, but they seem to be known for cranky attitudes and get larger than I would like. The carpets might get as long, but will be much thinner if I've done my homework right.

Everything will be in pots for ease of care and replacement. Was also thinking of devising a drip line system to ease the burden of watering.
 
  • #19
i would find something along the lines of a 'Miranda', 'Ventrata', ventricosa or similar easy to find easy to replace nep.....aint saying it wont work, just stating carpets tend to be fairly active and the chance of the nep getting destroyed is quite high.....just put something in there thats easy to replace and go for it........
 
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