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Thread: Species vs hybrids in cultivation

  1. #9
    Let's positive thinking! seedjar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rattler_mt View Post
    nep culture is about as old as orchid culture....hence the "Victorian Nep hybrids".....
    Yes - I think that orchids are still a somewhat young class of plants, as well. They certainly don't have the thousand-year history that some cultivated plants do. Besides, lots of the work of Victorian-era growers was lost during WWI, right? And there are new species and groups being discovered all the time. It's not young in terms of human lifetimes, but as a discipline in it's own right I think it's far from old.
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    rattler's Avatar
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    first yah compare them to orchids.....then they arent the same.....make up your mind......

    Orchids and Neps have basically the same cultivation history other than Orchids are more popular but the basic culture for them has come along at about the same rate......only real difference is there is a larger number of orchid species than neps..........there is no risk of us loosing nepenthes species cause everyone focuses on hybrids just like there isnt any legitimate reason to fear loosing pure orchid species to the hybridizers.......there is always a solid portion of the hobby base interested in the pure species.......im one that loves hybrids as much as anyone and ive got more pure species than hybrids,,,,,,,the pure species are just as interesting as any hybrid just as with orchids........and just as with orchids its often the pure species that may need more exacting care cause they dont have the hybrid vigor.......

    lots of work from victoria era growers was lost for all kinds of plants due to the World Wars......neps aint special in that right...........
    cervid serial killer
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  3. #11
    Carnivorous plant enthusiast vraev's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rattler_mt View Post
    nep culture is about as old as orchid culture....hence the "Victorian Nep hybrids".....and dont know about you guys but every year im finding it easier and easier to get ahold of a larger variety of species orchids......

    you are not going to have a true representation of a nep in the wild unless you can grow outdoors in similar conditions........i drool over some photos of neps in the wild and know i aint going to provide the conditions to match that......i aint near the equator, i cant duplicate that light.........
    Personally I don't find that at alll in orchid cultivation. The market here in canada is flooded with hybrids. I like to be able to show someone a plant, give them a nice description of it growing at a certain location in ecuador's rainforests. Something is satisfying when you see a pure species plant where you can say without ambiguiity about its description (for the most part....I understand the problem of complex hybrids that masquerade as species...eg: N. macrophylla in cultivation right now).

    Well...you are right in saying that we can never have a true representation of a nep in the wild as natural conditions are near impossible to recreate. But, atleast you could be satisfied that the N. hamata you grow is a type specimen of the species from this particular mountain on Sulawesi. On the other hand, something like an N. (truncata x hamata ) x ( x rokko x trusmadiensis ) just becomes a beast of its own. A creation of man... similarly crafted in idealogy to a seedless watermelon. lol! It was selected for the traits of pitcher size, teeth etc. But, in my opinion it will never carry the mystique of a pure species that has evolved in nature.

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    rattler's Avatar
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    well then your problem is where you live and not whats truely available to the average grower in the US or Europe.........i can get cloud forest orchid species from South America from atleast one US dealer.....there are quite a few major orchid sellers in the US that specialize in pure species.....but you are not going to find species orchids at big box stores just like you aint going to find much in the way of species neps.......or species anything other than cacti....why are hybrids so common and visible with orchid growing? cause they are easier to grow due to hybrid vigor.....but species are easy enough to find if yah want them.......

    your trying to pick and choose stuff and stretch the truth to prove your argument.....pure species of any plant tends to fall to the more specialized gardener.......in other words, if i want pure species flowers for my gardens i have to look off the beaten path(been there done that).......dont think there are much of any "pure species" veggies......infact as things go there are a wider variety of pure species available to the CP grower than about any other market share in gardening other than orchids.......and it has nothing to do with them being new to cultivation as most of them have been discovered more than 50 years ago.....some 3 times that
    cervid serial killer
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    rattler's Avatar
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    vraev.......20 seconds of looking on google....they are even in Ontario.....yeah, species orchids are sooooooo hard to track down, even in Canada........

    http://www.orchidsinourtropics.com/
    cervid serial killer
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  6. #14
    Let's positive thinking! seedjar's Avatar
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    Hmm? I didn't mean to say orchids were different. At least, not with respect to how old orchid and Nepenthes culture is. I don't think anything I said should imply that, either. What I'm saying is that next to things like roses or Brassicas, orchids and Neps are recently domesticated plants.
    As for my comment on the loss of Victorian glasshouses during the wars, I think it detracted both from orchids and Neps. But, judging by the greater diversity of orchids in cultivation, I would make an uneducated guess that the nascent Nep-growing community was hit harder by these losses than orchid growers. Just a guess, though.
    ~Joe
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    Livin' like a bug ain't easy / Livin' like a bug ain't easy... o//~

  7. #15
    Carnivorous plant enthusiast vraev's Avatar
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    Chill rattler! Just Chill!! You don't have to look at every post as a grudge match. These posts are meant for discussions....not arguments that you have to win.

    Yeah! I know "Orchids in our tropics". According to wikipedia there are 80 species in the paphiopedilum genus. Heck...I love miniature orchids....especially of the genus masdevillia and lepanthes and the selection is just not enough here locally. It is the same situation with nepenthes. We have only a single nepenthes importer here. Even that importer is not aloof from the expensive charges involved in getting plants...as a result of which, he prefers the cheaper easier hybrids to bring in at a bulk with less emphasis on the enigmatic species. Anyways....price is a different issue.

    THe point of this topic is about opinions on what you think is happening to nep cultivation. Do you think species should be remain intact as the main focus and the bug nursaries should probably try to focus their efforts on propogating their species stock rather than use them to make new hybrids thereby diluting the availibility of an already fascinating group of plants.

  8. #16
    rattler's Avatar
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    do they really not teach critical thinking in schools these days?

    As for my comment on the loss of Victorian glasshouses during the wars, I think it detracted both from orchids and Neps. But, judging by the greater diversity of orchids in cultivation, I would make an uneducated guess that the nascent Nep-growing community was hit harder by these losses than orchid growers.
    easy answer.....orchids always were and always will be more popular than nepenthes...they were grown by more ppl before, during and after the war..........

    do you guys not realize just how specialized our hobby is? just how TINY of a fraction of 1% of the gardening hobby is taken up by CPers......it is idiotic to complain you cant get specialized plants locally......as for the species versus hybrid thing there are MORE species available now than any time in history and its likely to get better, not worse......look at the posts here and on any other CP forum....species are just as popular as any hybrid.....hell lots of species are in higher demand than any hybrid......your original post makes no freaking sence and no thought was put into it before posting......

    as for not being able to find species orchids locally...........so? its a 12 hour drive for me to pick up species orchids from a seller, hell its a 12 hour drive for me to pick up neps at a store in person, for either i have to drive across the full length of one state and half of another...like neps not everyone is going to have an orchid grower down the block......yeah i cant buy either at my local nursery but yah know what? couple clicks of a mouse and i can have them here by the end of the week....they are easily available.....

    you see more hybrid orchids because they do better at big box stores....live longer on the shelf which makes them easier to sell......just cause you see one thing in stores doesnt mean thats the way it is in the entire hobby.......
    cervid serial killer
    Know guns, know peace, know safety. No guns, no peace, no safety
    I didn't get stimulated but he kept his promise on change, that's about all I got left!
    http://www.wolfpointherald.com/--http://www.safety-brite.net/

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