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Thread: Nepenthes hybrid...

  1. #25
    justjack's Avatar
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    Look, I tried joking a little in my one of the last posts. That went over like a turd in a punch bowl.
    I wasn't trying to get him worked up. It wasn't an "accusation". It was an apology of sorts. Obviously rattler isn't the only one who can be taken wrong.

    Thank you for hammering it home pyro. Cause obviously my concession to his point:
    "I truly appreciate the information on the TC importation/destruction. I truly take note and do see that quite differently." (sorry I'm not practiced at the quotation), is meaningless.
    I'm not trying to pick fights. There are things that make a jerk but I'm not telling everyone about it. And truth is a LOT of people have problems with this plant. A lot of people have problems with rajah. I bought one anyways. I'll take a chance, but even if I'm successful I'm not labeling it as easy. I do shop all over the place and there's not a great deal of places to find them right now. And Wistuba has three vendors obtaining directly from him hence no middle-man issues if you "shop around". As for apples to oranges i'm talking about Nep nurseries for the love of peat, not lowes. Easy neps are everywhere (even Home Depot), and not because they're centuries old but because they're EASY. Obviously hamata is a good bit easier than most everything I've read so far (yeah, i've got The Savage Garden, But I'm talking forum admin. types and no I don't personally know 'pros') but I have already conceeded to that point. I haven't stretched anything to make it my own and I really want this to end. I complimented rattler's success and wish to achieve the same. Other than that I'm glad hamata is not as challenging as I thought. I really don't want to be seen win the wrong light either and wish you both the best of luck with your plants and endeavors.

  2. #26
    justjack's Avatar
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    Even as I read my own post, "hammering it home" is over the top and I don't mean by implication to call rattler a "jerk". Truly I didn't come here to make enemies.

  3. #27
    Aristoloingulamata Dexenthes's Avatar
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    Haha man, this thread is just a bucket of lols, jack, it's fine really, I'm sure nobody's panties are twisted up from this one.


    Also, Pyro, I must be really bad at searching cause I cannot seem to find any 50 dollar hamatas or even under a 100. and, how certain are you that a hamata that's over 100 (165) is seed grown?

    I've always wanted one, and I remember there being lower prices than I see these days, but if it is seed grown I might not mind shelling extra bucks out there.
    LOOKING FOR: N. (argentii x bicalcarata) x {[(lingulata x edwardsiana) x (naga x hamata)] x [(klossii x undulatifolia) x (aristolochioides x rajah)]} Growlist: http://www.terraforums.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=124586

  4. #28
    Always a newbie glider14's Avatar
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    this thread is just a bucket of lols
    lol =]

    anywyas. im going to put my .02 in here too. hamata is the only availiable plant that i have not seen drop damatically in price... N. x trusmadiensis is one that has dropped WAY WAY WAY far... from plants being sold in to the many hundreds and even thousands no to only what...like 150 or something. lowii and rajah are two other that i can note. when i first started growing what...4 years ago? lowii regularly ran up to 80 dollars for a plant you can get today for less than 20. rajah ran up in to the hundreds and can now be found for about 20 dollars or so. supply and demand has something to do with the hamata thing obviously. BE and Wistuba know N. hamata will sell like mad when they are released. not to bash either of them, they do know this and they will sell them for an outrageous amount. have them put hamatas out for even 40$ for a while and then pop em back up to 100 dollars and not as many people will buy since they got a taste of the plants being cheap. would anyone buy a rajah or lowii if the price was back to what it was? no.

    that aside, the truth is that you can find small plants from other growers for sale or trade. and they are not even near as outrageous as suppliers. ive found several from other growers but never traded or bought one since i have this internet crap going on. i do grow its cousin N. tentaculata and it has never given me problems. but that says nothing about hamata other than the general growth rate and conditions. and since ive never grown it im not going to comment on it other than to some people it grows like a champ and to others it grows like a rock. you cant really tell what its going to do untill you get it.

    and with that. everyone whos being rough.....chill...
    Everything is explainable. The seemingly unexplainable is but a result of our insufficient knowledge.- Hans Brewer

  5. #29
    N=R* fs fp ne fl fi fc L Pyro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by justjack View Post
    Thank you for hammering it home pyro.
    I do not know that I was hammering it home. Again, being new to the site, you are not that familiar with how some of the members here operate. When there is a lot of info in a chain of threads then I will do a point by point. It is not done to hammer anything home but to make sure I cover everything asked/addressed. That is just my way, nothing personal meant by it and I apologize if it came off that way.

    Cause obviously my concession to his point:
    "I truly appreciate the information on the TC importation/destruction. I truly take note and do see that quite differently." (sorry I'm not practiced at the quotation), is meaningless....

    I'm not trying to pick fights. There are things that make a jerk but I'm not telling everyone about it.
    Jack, I must say you are a bit on an enigma. Maybe it is just your typing style but you do come off as a subtle aggressor, trying to slide barbs in without people realizing they are there. Your concession, to me, was to that single point that Rattler brought up. It did not seem to be conceding to every comment you had made, just to the TC specific one. Which is why I addressed all the points you made.

    And truth is a LOT of people have problems with this plant.
    I never said people were not All I said was that this plant is not some great heinous entity that strikes fear into the hearts of all mortals. Yes, some people have problems with it, that does not make it super difficult/touchy. It just means some people have difficulty. Some people have problems with VFTs (I was one of them LOL, could not grow them for the life of me till a couple years back.)

    I'll take a chance, but even if I'm successful I'm not labeling it as easy.
    I do not think I ever said hamata was "easy". I just said that it is not the frail, impossible plant that so many people (usually people without years of experience growing it) make it out to be. I hope you can appreciate just how frustrating it is when numerous of us who have years of first hand experience growing the plant are ignored in favor of "Well I read that..."

    I do shop all over the place and there's not a great deal of places to find them right now.
    That is just cause it is the tail end of winter As the temps warm it'll become more available I would guess.

    And Wistuba has three vendors obtaining directly from him hence no middle-man issues if you "shop around".
    Maybe your definition of middle man is different then mine but going through one of Wistuba's vendors, to me, is not different than going through his importer. In both cases the plants go to someone else before they come to you. Also, in my experience only one of those vendors does not mark the price up from what Wistuba lists.

    I really don't want to be seen win the wrong light either
    I do not think anyone sees you in the wrong light. FWIW, I certainly do not.

    and wish you both the best of luck with your plants and endeavors.
    And I wish you luck as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dexenthes View Post
    Also, Pyro, I must be really bad at searching cause I cannot seem to find any 50 dollar hamatas or even under a 100.
    They are out there 30 Euro converts to $41

    and, how certain are you that a hamata that's over 100 (165) is seed grown?
    Just because it is over $100 does not necessarily mean it is seed grown but considering the recent "rash" of posts about people's new, hella expensive new hamata have "seed grown" in the post... Some people might be riding that train to sell TC clones for higher than you could get them commercially. And some very dishonest people might decide to label a TC clone as seed grown so as to pull a scam... Comes down to how much you trust the person selling.
    'My love was science- specifically biology and, more specifically, when placed in a common jar, which of two organisms would devour the other.'

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  6. #30
    rattler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glider14 View Post
    lol =]

    anywyas. im going to put my .02 in here too. hamata is the only availiable plant that i have not seen drop damatically in price... ..
    you know 6 times in this thread by 2 different ppl have stated the main cause of this is one of the major suppliers had to destroy every single plant they had in stock both in and out of TC and start over from scratch do to legal reasons.........
    cervid serial killer
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  7. #31
    Always a newbie glider14's Avatar
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    sorry rattler =/ it does make sense now. and i see the reason. pardons for my rush.

    Alex
    Everything is explainable. The seemingly unexplainable is but a result of our insufficient knowledge.- Hans Brewer

  8. #32
    Let's positive thinking! seedjar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rattler_mt View Post
    Joe......sounds like you had a pest or disease problem.....if your keeping lowii and rajah happy it aint your growing conditions.....mine is growing along side raff seedlings that are quite happy...humidity is only in the 50ish% range aswell...........
    That's a theory, but I have my doubts. I had two plants come to me a year apart, and there was no outbreak among my other plants in between. The first one came to me in less-than-ideal shape, and when it eventually gave up on me I wasn't too phased. The second one was a total mystery - it was in great shape when I got it, but declined just like the other one. The first was a second-hand plant from someone that hadn't been able to give it the conditions it wanted, so shock was no surprise. But the second was from a reputable source and had been hardened off beforehand. I've never had any pest problems with my Neps until a few weeks ago (a few scattered individuals of soft brown scale.) But more than that, the plants looked good at first. I have an eye for the health of things and I can usually tell when my plants are unhappy with conditions before they start to slip. So, when I find a plant that reliably bites it without much of any warning when I'm doing everything right to my knowledge, to me that's a "difficult plant." Given, my sample size as of now is two, but I've heard it from enough other people that I feel comfortable taking my experiences as indicative of a larger theme. I can only assume that my methods were somehow off, but when my setup works for everything else I try it makes me think that it may be the plant and not my own shortcoming. I would like to point out; successful hamata growers say that it can't be that hard and people must just be doing it wrong. But how many hamatas have you tried to grow? Is there a chance that you could've lucked out with a hardy clone or a particularly healthy individual? I hear lots of opinions, but most of the accounts I've heard of are based on one's experience with a single plant.
    Maybe it's semantics about what constitutes a hard plant. (To some people, all CPs are finicky and exotic, as I think someone has already pointed out.) All I know is that I've had greater success with less effort with almost every other plant in my collection, and the heartache I've put myself through trying to do right by hamata is comparable to or greater than what I've put into every other reputably "hard" plant I own or have owned. If you want to argue that, feel free to send me one of your easy hamatas and I promise to give it an excellent home.
    ~Joe
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