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Thread: Nepenthes x trusmadiensis . . .

  1. #9
    BigBella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vraev View Post
    nothing special. It just looks better than clone 1. ALso their clone 2 arose from a female macrophylla. The uppers are hence a lot more like lowii x veitchii from EP rather than a very very broad disfigured lowii-like upper. Just personal preference I guess.

    Yeah BigB. Congratulations with the seed. I wish I had half of those SG plants thats you got. Especially for species such as macrophylla where there are concerns if the common clones are "complex hybrids", thats a fantastic addition to your collection.
    Thanks, but I don't necessarily put much weight into the old N. macrophylla "complex hybrid issue." I've seen a number of fairly mature plants, here and overseas over the years, from both Wistuba and Borneo Exotics -- and I certainly think they pass muster. There had been a minor issue some years ago, but both now maintain that what they have on hand is the real deal . . .
    “Sì perché l'autorità dell'opinione di mille nelle scienze non val per una scintilla di ragione di un solo . . ."

    -- Galileo "Biff" Galilei

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    Carnivorous plant enthusiast vraev's Avatar
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    fair enough. As I was hypothesising in another topic elsewhere, lowii seems to have a lot of influence in any of its hybrids. So perhaps the natural population of N. macrophylla itself is very diverse with lot of hybridization with the sympatric lowii and even generations down the road, the progeny still retain and express some of the hidden lowii alleles. It you can extrapolate it for another thousands-million years, perhaps there won't be any macrophylla left, seeing as how similar lowii and macrophylla are in their adaptations.

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    BigBella's Avatar
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    Considering the species, there must to be at least some genetic drift -- variability -- in a any given population of N. macrophylla, just as in other Nepenthes. N. hamata is a good example, where I have seen a good variety of pitcher shape, varying development of its peristome, color, hirsuteness, or even lack thereof. So far as I know, few are suggesting that current varieties on the market are anything but N. hamata; and I am certain that even individual cultivation plays a role . . .
    “Sì perché l'autorità dell'opinione di mille nelle scienze non val per una scintilla di ragione di un solo . . ."

    -- Galileo "Biff" Galilei

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    Carnivorous plant enthusiast vraev's Avatar
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    hmm.....then what do they suggest is the "true hamata"??

    yes! I totally understand that nepenthes seem to have at the replication level a higher rate of mutation in their polymerase enzymes. THis can explain why this class of plants shows increased diversity. Individual cultivation does play a role in the plant's phenotype, but there are enough examples of full grown hamata from around the world that show the characteristic leaf form, pitcher phenotype etc. Color, size of pitchers...pitcher teeth size, these are variables taht are affected by the surrounding conditions a lot, yet, the primary phenotype looks similar in all examples of hamata that I have seen.

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    BigBella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vraev View Post
    hmm.....then what do they suggest is the "true hamata"??

    yes! I totally understand that nepenthes seem to have at the replication level a higher rate of mutation in their polymerase enzymes. THis can explain why this class of plants shows increased diversity. Individual cultivation does play a role in the plant's phenotype, but there are enough examples of full grown hamata from around the world that show the characteristic leaf form, pitcher phenotype etc. Color, size of pitchers...pitcher teeth size, these are variables taht are affected by the surrounding conditions a lot, yet, the primary phenotype looks similar in all examples of hamata that I have seen.
    That's designation is probably arbitrarily based on the 1984 holotype and original description of Nepenthes hamata, N. hamatum, or N. dentatum. Take your pick.

    What I was referring to in connection to N. macrophylla is, again, the variety of pitcher shapes of both cultivated and wild plants. Some have the very distinct peristome that everyone generally associates with that species; others are somewhat more less defined -- as I've also seen in some mature N. hamata, where lower pitchers can have a variety of shape, color, and sizes; and the peristomal teeth can be quite large or a fraction of the size of others.

    N. macrophylla may be a bit more variable and more likely to "take it in the shorts" during recombination as seed; stranger things have happened . . .
    “Sì perché l'autorità dell'opinione di mille nelle scienze non val per una scintilla di ragione di un solo . . ."

    -- Galileo "Biff" Galilei

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    Carnivorous plant enthusiast vraev's Avatar
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    fair enough. I guess this joins the rank as one of those species (along with veitchii) where multiple clones from different parents are essential to get the whole variety in cultivation.

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