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Thread: So I got a shipment of plants today...

  1. #49
    Nep'tard Chris_Himself's Avatar
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    Yeah, I've emptied the darn thing on my sarrs during aphid season. The dews don't really like it on their tentacles and get all ugly, so I try to not overspray, the roots don't mind at all though!

    I've used it on neps no problem before, I just don't think neem is a great contact killer on it's own so this stuff has pyrethrins as well, I started using this stuff instead of my bayer 3-in-1 lately because it's organic, the Bayer was used only on my nep's leaves to protect myself from Crap Terrarium Depot's stock when they decided I didn't have enough spider mites in my collection.
    Nepenthes Outdoors in CA

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  2. #50
    Not Growing Up! GrowinOld's Avatar
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    Okay,
    since I seem to have said some things worthy of attention....

    For one, we all have a different opinion of what a "new grower" is, and while I can remember how much (or little) real experience I had after raising CP's for a few years, I do see that even after all the time that has passed and all the plants that I have grown (both successfully and unsuccessfully) since then, that I still do not know nearly as much as I would like.
    I also realize that even after years and years of growing plants successfully, something unexpected can still easily happen to wipe out my entire collection. Just because I start to grow some Neps or Dews lets say, without ever killing any or having problems of any sorts, even for a few years, does NOT make me an expert or even a highly experienced grower. Lucky perhaps! But without experiencing some plant diseases, fungus, insect infestations, plant killing temperatures or other general situations requiring resurrections or overcoming other near death experiences, how can I call myself experienced or trust myself to handle such possible situations with confidence in the future? Who knows better how to endure the storm, than someone who has by their own hand and not luck, endured the storms many times before?

    To me, every "problem situation" that arises, is another opportunity to learn how to handle something new, and it is experiences like these that can help make us better growers. Knowledge and understanding is not just a measure of time and luck! And while studying and reading about something is extremely valuable, it is still not a replacement for hands on experience. I have seen many growers who have "not killed" plants for years, but they have no real growing experience. And so without some external guidance or hand-holding from others, I know for a fact that they cannot confidently do basic things like transplant a plant or divide it to produce others, without a good chance of killing it!
    I only mentioned about "new growers" (in the first place) in relation to "problem" situations that they have not encountered before, and to help people realize that even when bad things do happen, they can benefit from it. I myself have learned some of the most important lessons in growing, from turning a problem around and getting a plant to survive thru peril, and eventually thrive (or even in trying but failing). (I don't expect everyone to agree with me, but then this is a varied audience.)

    Chris, in looking over your posts you have repeatedly expressed worry about people not trading with you.... (I didn't bring it up first, but responded to your expressed concern.) ...and here again you mention "....that sucks that people won't consider trades with me anymore based on this bug bomb of an abomination." But as I tried to reassure you already about myself.... I don't think any grower who trusts their capabilities will have a problem trading with you. You have shown your capability to find and identify "bugs" and problems already, and expressed a disgust for them. I would think people could trust you more because of this! But as I pointed out already about this being a varied audience, you will indeed still find that some people will come to the logical conclusion, while others can not.
    [Hellooooo, even Andrew had aphids on one of his plants and worms in another! That doesn't mean you aren't gonna trust him, does it? Well....!]
    So I guess I am saying, try not worrying so much about trading your plants, as it will happen when the time is right. Be patient, and stop bringing it up how no one is gonna trade with you! Just put out your trade "have's" from time to time, and what you are hoping to find, and it will happen.... (so long as whatever you are offering and wanting, is a reasonable trade of course!)

    Andrew, I couldn't get into the link (on post #43): http://cpforums.org/gallery/d/32537-6/newvftwithbugs . Maybe I am doing something wrong again, but for me it asks for user name and password and doesn't show a picture.

    And it wasn't until (post #36) when Exo used his "20-20" vision to see the aphid and mentioned it, that I even noticed it. (I am Growin'old ya know, so the eyesight ain't what it used to be!) I do apologize, but I didn't see any reference to anything about aphids before that either. (Boy, my eye sight sure isn't what it used to be! Pictures and words, whats next?)
    Had I caught the mention of aphids on it, I would have made the connection and probably located the aphid. Again, sorry.... at a normal glance it just looked like a VFT bulb out of cold storage to me. (I didn't even notice on the "huge" picture, although I only gave it a glance too, and again wasn't looking for aphids. To me it hust looked like a bigger version and I couldn't see it covered with aphids, in focus or out! In all fairness to you, I have to admit that I usually have trouble with a lot of the photos that people post online, especially the really large ones. They just look like the same out of focused pictures, only larger, so that now I have to move the picture around to see the whole thing! I didn't used to have this problem, but from years of doing very fine close up work, my eyes are shot and it is just plain difficult for me to see what is going on sometimes.)
    Actually, when I looked at the (normal sized) picture, I kinda liked the VFT bulb! It looked decent size and all, and I didn't see any real damage or rot to it! (I thought it looked pretty good, as I have seen a lot worse, and was impressed at how good it looked after being in dormancy/cold storage! That's why I wanted to see the rest of the bulb, as I couldn't tell what I was supposed to be seeing! Now I really feel old!)
    Also, the reason I mentioned it looking like a normal VFT bulb, was that I thought perhaps Timmy was asking what it was when he mentioned about cultivar. (Sorry Timmy, I just never understand what you are really asking sometime, or why!)

    Indeed aphids can become a real nuisance, especially lethal for other garden plants that I grow. I have experienced "blooms" of them and other pests in the greenhouse in past years, even in the winter! (Winter's unexpected guest list also includes frogs, preying mantis's, and some unusual butterflies!)
    However, here again, not something a vendor should be sending out in good conscience. (But then, if the VFT bulbs were a dime a piece, I would easily accept the risk! Especially if the real damage that they had done was only negligible. Again, something I would trust on past experience to help me decide.)
    Oh boy, accepting infested plants... bad me again! I bet I'm gonna get flack for that one! ...but hey, I can picture the ad:
    "Large, lightly damaged aphid infested VFT bulbs for sale....10 cents a piece!"
    (Oh yea, it will have to specify the cultivar of course! I almost forgot!)

    And yes, a layer of rocks/weed shield, etc are some of the common sense things one would expect from a decent vendor! As you say, even if it isn't outright destructive, these are things that are easily preventable and shouldn't be happening from someone who is a vendor. (I assume your "problems" came from an individual, and if not, is a vendor you have spoken to about the issue.)

    And thanks for clarifying on the picture SirKristoff. It certainly helps! (Especially slow, semi-blind people like me who need things spelled out!) By the time I saw it this time however, I already read Exo's post and looked for and found the aphid and his "skin/shell". (Prior to that, I thought the white aphid "shells" were some fungus crud left over from cold storage.)

    Actually, I used to be very good at the "where's Waldo" things! Now I am gonna have to call Exo to help me read the posts correctly! Oh jeez, you have no idea how ironic that is to me!

    Well, I think I addressed everything that was brought up... oh yea, on the surface and taken at face value, I don't understand about the whole R.O. water thing killing aphids with popping bubbles, but then I didn't make the connection or see any relation to the conversation at hand concerning aphids infesting a VFT bulb ...awhen the question arose about what cultivar the VFT was, either... but then in re-reading it I figured it out!

    I apologize, as it is sometimes a bit difficult to understand and communicate effectively via a "faceless" forum environment, without having the cues necessary for a full understanding as to where the "ideas" and information presented are coming from and how to take them and how to respond.
    After further research, in spite if other issues, I think it is ultimately very nice to see when someone can identify how nice some people can be here on the forum, and are thus wanting to be a part of that.
    And I REALLY don't expect many people to understand what that meant!

    BTW, not that it is practical for others and it is probably already common knowledge with everyone, but in the past I have sprayed plants to kill off the bugs, and then sprayed the plants again later with clean, fresh water to wash off the other "bug" spray, to help prevent some of the problems that are apparently of concern.

    Oh well, it's been a real...treat.... Love to stay... But for now I am off to grow something fun!
    Last edited by adnedarn; 04-17-2010 at 10:05 PM. Reason: fixed url i posted
    Experience is the best teacher. At least it used to be.
    But then, common sense isn't so common anymore, is it.


    http://www.terraforums.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=113866

  3. #51
    Admin- I'm growing CPs in the Desert of Tucson, Az. adnedarn's Avatar
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    Whoops guess the link shoulda been http://cpforums.org/gallery/d/32537-6/newvftwithbugs
    I didn't mention it was aphids because I thought it was fairly obvious. They do blend in well and I could see how some one may have missed them, even though that's the part of the picture that was focused (since you mentioned the rest was out of focus hehe) No biggie. I got it from a popular online vendor directly purchased through their online store. I did email them but got no response what so ever. I agree with going through it for experience, I won't claim to have never had pests! I do grow in greenhouses so a pest can come in one of many ways.. but I do check over the whole collection as I water for any sign of them to treat right away, and catching them as they come in with trades/purchases is always a plus. Treating a few that come in the mail is so much easier than treating a whole greenhouse (or both!) I don't hold past infestations against people, but for the love of everything if you know you have some... Tell me so I can either decide to have you send it and treat it myself, or let you hold off on shipping until it is taken care of and have less chance of spreading them in my greenhouses. :-)
    Keep growing GrowinOld!!

    Andrew
    -Andrew
    Owner of TerraForums, FlyTrapShop.com, and cpforums.org.
    Support FlyTrapShop, support TerraForums! www.flytrapshop.com

  4. #52
    blokeman's Avatar
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    well said growin old
    Grow list...
    http://terraforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=114907

    “Experience: that most brutal of teachers. But you learn, my God do you learn.” C.S. Lewis

  5. #53
    Nep'tard Chris_Himself's Avatar
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    I did not think the community would be receptive to my complaint thread essentially because it's not professional but GrowinOld has inspired me to fully disclose my situation to steer people away. I actually had a good time writing this, so please don't flame me, I'm just venting towards a somewhat receptive audience. I doubt this will change anything and it seems even Andrew has gotten in on this joyride so why not?

    So heres is the full story: My girlfriend of 3 years orders me a batch of plants as a surprise V-day present (sweet right?). She knows nothing about CP's, let alone neps, and she used NepsAroundtheHouse for plant info, care guides, and vendors. Prior to this, I literally had 150w of CFL lighting for 3 plants and she thought it was silly. Turns out we don't know where the stuff is after v-day came along. This is how the order went:

    N. Densiflora (didn't have it)
    N. Macfarlanei didn't have it)
    N. Alata (unrooted during shipping, planted in pure peat, still kicking)
    N. Spectibilis (I found it loose in the box, had to reroot it, JUST showing signs of growth)


    The Dens and Mac we're the only reason she even shopped there. They took 3 weeks until I finally e-mailed them and they told me they didn't have the stuff, then they kept my girlfriends money, didn't offer a refund, and asked me what I had in my collection, offered me free plants and randomly substituted them with (I asked them for a Pasian Highland Truncata which they didn't have which is on my most wanted list right now, could have ended the hunt there)

    N. Spect. x Vent (I actually really like this plant)
    N. Veitchii x Platychila (Too early to tell what it's going to look like)
    N. Gentle (potted in pure peat? Basically looks like an x Miranda which I told him I had, I like it)


    I get all the stuff we ordered + random stuff the next week (this is in the middle of March) along with this killer infestation of spider mites which rape and pillage my entire collection of plants I actually DO love.

    THEN almost 2 months later the N. Spect (Pangulubao) hasn't even grown yet, I politely request for a replacement which they don't have, he offers me a nice North Sumatran which is on the way from BE, I'm not going to wait and I ask for an N Reinward or sarcastically whatever they have laying around, but they hand me that Maxima which is half dead now and came with a fungus gnat colony. The larvae are DISGUSTING to watch. They're very very dead now. But not dead enough for my taste. I'd use fire if I didn't care for the plants. Here is their response to me telling him "Hey man, my N. Spect is dead, your plants came broken, and you gave me bugs":

    Hi Chris,

    I will take a look in the greenhouse again today and see what I come up with. I'm sorry to hear about the problem with the plants upon arrival and would have liked to know about it back then. In order to follow up with our plant packers we need the feedback to we can figure out what went wrong. Regarding the spider mites, I really must say that I find it very hard to believe. Please understand that it is not because we are above having pests in the greenhouse, but rather because of what spider mites need to grow and thrive. Are you calling your customer a liar? Spider mites need dry air in order to do well and are much more common in indoor grown plants. Our greenhouse is so moist and humid that they are honestly the one pest we never see. Your customers do though. The only pest we sometimes have an issue with is scale and that is treated on an as-needed basis because it is not too common in there either. And apparently spider mites. There are actually a few other things that can cause spotting on leaves and some species of Nepenthes, i.e. sibuyanensis, are prone to developing spots for reasons we have yet to determine. Spider mites are usually a good cause.We suspect it could be insufficient light. I have intense lighting and my Miranda has never produced a single green leaf. In any case, we would notice such things as we don't just have a "move 'em in and move 'em out type of operation. Yes you do .Spider mites also spin very noticeable webs that often cover the back of leaves and are hard to miss. Yep, they definitely were. Put a plant on an open windowsill in average room conditions and I can almost guarantee they will pop up pretty quickly! Too bad they're in a sealed closet in a 2nd floor bedroom opposite the window. They can't tolerate moisture but apparently can apparate?
    I think I know what spider mites are. You have spider mites if:

    1. They're mites that look like spiders
    2. They create brown spots on plant tissue
    3. They spin webs of chaos and deception
    4. They mock you in your sleep and say mean things about you while destroying your plants.

    My interest in CP's is from a childhood curiousity where I was never able to grow them successfully. I stumbled into Jacob Farin's "Ask the Carnivorous Plant guys" vid's on youtube, his website, and the rest is history. So essentially growing these plants the right way is something I have fallen in love with, my routine consists of checking my plants before and after I sleep for growth and health. I haven't had any pests other than an occasional aphid til this order. So you have to consider how offensive their business practices have been considering my girlfriend paid for the stock, they infested my plants, and haven't really answered to me yet for this N. Maxima fiasco. I'm a starving college student and each plant is a serious commitment to me and isn't expendable at all. I literally saved for 3 weeks to buy my first sarrs this time last year.

    Wanna know the kicker? Kristi's ebay store has everything I originally wanted in stock for less money and very cheap shipping and she actually specializes in this stuff. I've been talking to her via PM's and her operation appears to be way more passionate than this place about plants.

    Their plants in-house are actually pretty healthy as far as I know. The pitchers are a wee bit smaller than I'm used to though.The pests are a minor inconvenience if you know how to handle them. The shipping and inventory control is what I have a problem with at this point. If make an effort to make amends to the community, only then would I reconsider conducting business with them. I also fiend for that Reinward everyday I think about it though.

    Sigh. Isn't it pretty?


    Needless to say, my girlfriend is livid, and I tell her everyday that I love the plants anyways, just because she got me them.
    Nepenthes Outdoors in CA

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  6. #54
    Admin- I'm growing CPs in the Desert of Tucson, Az. adnedarn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris_Himself View Post
    to fully disclose my situation to steer people away....
    ...and it seems even Andrew has gotten in on this joyride so why not?

    Lets remember that this forum does not allow positive or negative reviews of stores in order to stay fair. I joined in on an "bad experience" thread but in no way gave any hints or clues as to where my plant came from. I didn't even tell my VFT cultivar so people couldn't use that to try and find what store it came from. I even turned down people PMing me for the store name... Anyone that wants to join in, I would appreciate if they follow the same guide lines as my post. give your bad experience but don't try to give hints and clues as to where it came from and such....
    Thanks!
    Andrew
    -Andrew
    Owner of TerraForums, FlyTrapShop.com, and cpforums.org.
    Support FlyTrapShop, support TerraForums! www.flytrapshop.com

  7. #55
    Nep'tard Chris_Himself's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adnedarn View Post
    Lets remember that this forum does not allow positive or negative reviews of stores in order to stay fair. I joined in on an "bad experience" thread but in no way gave any hints or clues as to where my plant came from. I didn't even tell my VFT cultivar so people couldn't use that to try and find what store it came from. I even turned down people PMing me for the store name... Anyone that wants to join in, I would appreciate if they follow the same guide lines as my post. give your bad experience but don't try to give hints and clues as to where it came from and such....
    Thanks!
    Andrew
    Understood. I'll keep it clean of any names or hints.
    Nepenthes Outdoors in CA

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  8. #56
    Not Growing Up! GrowinOld's Avatar
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    Hey Chris,

    Now THAT makes a whole lot more sense, is actually understandable and reasonable, and even makes for a good bedtime/monster story for the kids who dream of growing CP's someday!

    You have been thru a lot, and are not the only one to go thru this with them. Indeed, it is not just about the bugs, which is bad enough, but it is more about all things added together. The major problem to me being getting them to part with the money (refund) once they get their grubby hands on it!

    It took me over two years to use up a $100 gift certificate I got (from my brother-in-law) with them, because they never had anything in stock that I wanted.

    Indeed, as a business I am sure they have had a lot of people killing plants and blaming them, or trying to scam them for free plants... BUT they have obviously over-compensated for that sort of thing.
    Also, it is difficult to try to get "satisfaction" if you wait much beyond the time the plants arrive, as it is with anything now-a-days beyond the 30 day money back guarantee! It didn't used to be this way, however customer service no longer means what it once did!

    It is so important to take good photos, keep track of who you talk to (and when), and respond quickly to a situation like this. Indeed they put you off, as a lot of companies do (non-CP companies of every kind). The longer they can drag it out, the less likely they will have to do anything about it!
    And indeed, emailing them some photos of the bugs you received and the damage to the plants a couple days after you got the package would have been more appropriate than waiting. (I am not sure what you were waiting for, but to be honest, reacting quickly and efficiently is something I had to learn the hard way, which means I was older than you by the time I figured out how to beat bad companies at their game.

    At this point, I would bug them to no end, to get the plants you want or a refund. Realize that once you agree to receiving a plant you don't really want, they won't exchange it for another plant! It's like buying underwear! They claim it is of questionable condition once you have possession of it!
    If you can't get the plants you want from them, tell them you are contacting the Better Business Bureau and filing a complaint. (Check BBB website first to find out the process, and then follow thru and do it if they won't do anything about the situation.) I would press for a refund and then start dealing with Krisit or Andrew or someone more reputable than these people. (If they won't give you a refund, that's when I would tell them I was calling BBB.)

    A company that won't refund your money on products they don't/can't deliver on is not a company that should be doing business. (Even if they have to dock a refunding fee, especially if a credit card was used, is understandable.) But I am being generous here, as it is their own fault for selling something they can't deliver on.

    I can feel for what you have gone thru, as I think a lot of people here can. Like I say, in telling your story as you now have, I KNOW a lot of people here can identify with what you have gone thru!
    In view of your situation, there is absolutely no reason anyone who knows anything about growing plants, wouldn't trade with you. Your situation is more common than you think, and things are not as delicate and bad as you might have imagined.

    Keep in mind that the Auction is coming up soon, and you may find a deal on some things you want then.

    I am sorry to hear what you have gone thru however. I have had similar experiences and I think a lot of people here have.

    Take care and I do wish you better luck in the future. You have a lifetime ahead of you to grow plants. Keep in mind, when I was your age (I used to hate when older people said that to me, but I understand it now!) Neps were not even available at any price, and it was difficult to find anyone who sold much more than a common VFT, Sarr and Dew! I know that doesn't help you now, but I just want to help you realize that you will have many opportunities in the future, to get and grow a lot of the plants that you only now dream of having.
    Be patient, it will happen.
    Paul
    Experience is the best teacher. At least it used to be.
    But then, common sense isn't so common anymore, is it.


    http://www.terraforums.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=113866

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