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Thread: Nepenthes Seeds and eBay.

  1. #9
    Tastes like chicken! Exo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dexenthes View Post
    This I know. But what country is it that has challenged these growing countries to adopt industrialization as their way of life?

    And we are still the fifth largest consumers of palm oil. That is worth noting.
    We didn't "Challenge" them to do anything....most of the people over there just don't feel like living an thatched huts anymore, and the govenment funds it's construction by selling timber.


    I get sick of misguided people thinking that the US is the axis of evil or something, the countries of the world can be plenty corrupt without our help.
    Some days it just isn't worth chewing thru the restraints.

    My growlist: http://www.terraforums.com/forums/sh...255#post961255

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  2. #10
    Aristoloingulamata Dexenthes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swords View Post
    Well, I think already this is getting way off topic! From Nepenthes seed listings to arguing over palm oil within four posts? LOL
    LOL So true!
    Quote Originally Posted by swords View Post
    Unless the person is using their screen name from a forum of something, none of us knows who is buying what on eBay. Whether they are geniuses or dolts or what they are doing with their purchases. I've found out after sales that I have sold to both and probably all sorts in between. Would I like everything I sell to go to someone like the doctor in Minneapolis who bought all my old large Neps and not the guy who potted a cutting from my N. hamata in miracle grow and killed it? Certainly but you just can't know who your customers are or in this case who other people's customers are.
    Well the difference between these two situations is that your plants were your own, cultivated by you, I'm sure some of them were TC and some of them SG, but either way they were already removed from their environment.

    These seeds on eBay are directly from the mountains themselves. They were but a breeze away from landing on the forest floor that their ancestors have been sprouting on for generations.

    Quote Originally Posted by swords View Post
    If people are concerned enough about the seed listings they can simply report them as a poached items every time they see them posted. That will eliminate a lot of seed grown plants in the hobby but if you really care that much, reporting the listings should certainly be one way to put a stop to it - at least through eBay. It doesn't matter what anyone of us says here about it, eBay is in charge of eBay you'd have to contact them.
    I guess that's the thing - I have considered reporting them as being poached. I haven't because I know that at least a few of my fellow growers actually buy from them. But where do we draw the line?

    Not that long ago there was a bunch of fuss over some Sarracenia being sold on eBay that looked like they were potentially poached. There was a huge stink created over that, and just as an observer of these situations I am legitimately surprised that I have seen no stink whether on this forum, or another in regards to these Nepenthes seeds.

    I guess I'm just wondering am I totally alone in thinking this is wrong?


    @Exo - Swords is right our discussion got way off topic very quickly, and there's no winning that debate.
    Last edited by Joseph Clemens; 01-16-2011 at 07:02 PM.
    LOOKING FOR: N. (argentii x bicalcarata) x {[(lingulata x edwardsiana) x (naga x hamata)] x [(klossii x undulatifolia) x (aristolochioides x rajah)]} Growlist: http://www.terraforums.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=124586

  3. #11
    Tastes like chicken! Exo's Avatar
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    I was having a thoughtful discussion....I was simply responding to statements to the best of my ability.


    So if you just wanted opinions, you prolly shouldn't have pointed out how mine was "Wrong"
    Some days it just isn't worth chewing thru the restraints.

    My growlist: http://www.terraforums.com/forums/sh...255#post961255

    Video of my birth http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Xc5wIpUenQ

  4. #12
    Taliesin-DS's Avatar
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    I dont rlly want to get into the discussion here, but i have some information that may be relevent.
    I asked the seed seller from indonesia (you prolly know who) about his thoughts on conservation etc.
    He replied by saying that its not illegal according to cites, he does not take seeds from conservation areas or natural parks and if he takes seeds, he only takes a small portion of the seeds that are there, and he does not tell were the plants are.
    my growlist: http://terraforums.com/forums/showth...306#post976306
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    <Exo> @Talie......You are the lord of all things blah....

  5. #13
    Aristoloingulamata Dexenthes's Avatar
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    I understand that his poaching is not illegal technically, but I suppose the most important question to ask him is why he does it.

    Is it to make money? Or is it to prolong the existence of these plants?

    Maybe I'll ask him. But if it was the latter, then one would think that a place like ICPS would be where you'd go...
    LOOKING FOR: N. (argentii x bicalcarata) x {[(lingulata x edwardsiana) x (naga x hamata)] x [(klossii x undulatifolia) x (aristolochioides x rajah)]} Growlist: http://www.terraforums.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=124586

  6. #14
    does this rag smell like chloroform to you? boxofrain's Avatar
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    a moral post

    I have my morals, I got them from my folks.
    I have hiked many back country trails here in the Pac Nor West.
    When I saw Darlingtonia in the wild for the first time, I wanted so bad to take some home.
    But this simple statement from my farther put me on a different path .
    "you can take some home with you and probably watch them die, or leave them here and come back another time to enjoy their beuty where it is meant to be".
    I do go back now and then just to look at them.
    I know of a few local sites that are still very much untouched, with literally walls of CP's cascading down a dripping rock face.
    As always...I leave them there.
    "the memories of a man in his old age, are the deeds of a man in his prime"

  7. #15
    DETHCHEEZ's Avatar
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    Taliesin-DS touched on the subject that I was going to bring up, if it was actually illegal from them to collect seeds from the wild where they live, if not, than it really wouldn't be poaching, but a moral issue if they should or not

    I'm with you that the environment shouldn't be raped, but I honestly don't think there really is much that can be done about it
    History shows that all to well

    As for reporting them to eBay, again it might not be considered poaching where they're at

    It really is a supply & demand issues
    If they can't sell the seeds on eBay, they'll just find another venue to sell them on {message boards, web sites, etc.} & given that the internet is World Wide
    The only real way to stop them would be to kill the demand "World Wide" & that's very doubtful
    As long as there's someone somewhere in the world willing to buy them there will be a demand for them & they will continue to do it
    Last edited by DETHCHEEZ; 01-17-2011 at 06:27 AM.

  8. #16
    swords's Avatar
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    I think everyone can agree that we don't wish to see plants go extinct in the wild but sadly that appears to be happening in unprotected areas due to industry. However, we can rejoice in the fact that in the hands of capable persons, seed will often have a much higher germination & survival rate in captivity compared to being left to it's own devices in the wild. Perhaps they go extinct in the wild due to deforestation and infrastructure but to survive only in captivity when there is no home range left is at least better than completely extinct I feel.

    The low survivability and absence of enough perfect micro-climates is part of the reason Nepenthes, orchids and other "rare" plants tend to create copious amounts of seed yet are still not generally common weeds in their endemic areas. If it's true that this guy is not taking the entire flower stalk and merely part then there should be almost no impact since much of the seed is wasted to the whimsy of the winds anyway. I would certainly see pulling up the mature plants and selling them as a far worse crime against nature than taking some seed pods and getting the plants into cultivation. After all, that's how BE , AW, MT and everyone else gets their initial starter clones - by collecting seed for invitro germination.

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