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Thread: Wild collected Nep seed purchase discussions

  1. #17
    flasker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColdCoffee View Post
    I should point out, and then I am done- my point here is not necessarily that we should boycott all of these sellers. Maybe that is the answer, I do not know. For all I know they could have bought them under the impression that they were not wild harvested and have since stopped buying from these guys. Who knows (Note, I am not speculating)

    My point here is that this problem is not surface deep. Some of the seeds you are buying from US based sellers may have been poached. Some of the seed grown nepenthes you are paying top dollar for may have been poached from the wild (This is speculationish, but with very good reason backed by facts). Admittedly I have yet to see a listing for a "Seed grown Nepenthes dubia" or such- but again, in participating in these sales you are supporting the activities of those that wild collect critically endangereds.
    .......
    100 percent agree. Never buy endangered seeds and plants from sellers even they are in US because "US based sellers may have been poached". Never go from one forum to another forum looking for "rare" seeds because (MAY BE) ".... you are supporting the activities of those that wild collect critically endangereds" . Some interesting links:

    http://icps.proboards.com/index.cgi?...ad=5291&page=1

    http://www.terraforums.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=129819

  2. #18

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    Last edited by ColdCoffee; 04-07-2012 at 02:01 AM. Reason: Closing accounts I dont use

  3. #19

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    I am not familiar with what permits are needed over there to collect wild seed, or if permits are needed at all.
    What are the rules?

  4. #20

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    Last edited by ColdCoffee; 04-07-2012 at 02:00 AM. Reason: Closing accounts I dont use

  5. #21
    Formerly known as Pineapple Nepenthesis's Avatar
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    I ordered seeds from albermarelsounds on reccomendation from a TF member who had great germination. I don't believe any of the species of the 5 I ordered were even rare. I've seen all of them for sale commonly in stores and on eBay. I don't support poaching in any way and I didn't know the seeds I ordered were poached at the time I ordered them, but in all honesty, I don't think a gymnamphora, glabrata or tentaculata is going to become threatened any time soon. By selling the seeds on eBay to people who will closely monitor them to make sure they get as high of a germination rate as possible, it may actually be helping the species in general, not in the wild. If something were to happen to where the population declined, there would be thousands and thousands in captivity to help preserve the species. They aren't going anywhere with all these hobbyists. Also, neps are like weeds when given optimal conditions. When given those conditions, they will flower and create thousands of seeds. Not all will survive, but I think a lot more seeds are being produced than poached. The market for nep seeds is so specific that there would be no reason to collect lots of seed pods, because not that many will sell.

    That being said, collecting seeds from the finicky species that may even die often in the wild, or species that don't breed as much, or species that are very scarcely found is probably a bad idea. If I see seeds from a species I've never heard of on ebay, or a species that is technically "rare", I wouldn't buy it to boycott the collection of those. Maybe even report the item to eBay as a rare species being illegally collected and sold.
    If you guys are really concerned about some species becoming extinct, you could always start some conservation groups to boycott the sale and prevent the collection of the uncommon species.

    Just my thoughts and opinions.

  6. #22
    i dont do pots. amphirion's Avatar
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    my two cents....

    if one were able to obtain breeding pairs of pure species raised from seed, there is absolutely no reason to continue harvesting from wild populations. i think any concerned CP hobbyist worth his or her salt would strive towards any possible means to conserve wild populations by creating a sustainable source of plants.

    TC is obviously the best quick fix to this problem as we are able to take desirable individual plants, clone them at exponential rates and distribute them to CP enthusiasts. however, this is not the long term fix of saving wild populations--the reason being, at the discretion or by freak accidents, stock cultures of Neps are either discontinued or are contaminated, and are lost to cultivation. for example, if we were to lose the only N. splendidiana clone in cultivation or the 4 clones of N. rajah---how would these plants be accessible again? by returning back to wild populations....

    this is why i believe it is absolutely necessary for redundant backups in the form of seed grown breeding pairs of Nepenthes species. the would 1) add to the present genetic pool available from TC clones and 2) be a possible continuous source of Nepenthes seed, some of which can be TC'ed and the whole process can start all over again, starting a positive feedback loop. here, not only could wild populations be relieved of human pressure, but they could even be replenished from cultivated stock. sounds like a great idea doesnt it? however, this idea requires the cooperation of the majority of CP growers working together as each grower trying to accomplish this goal on his/her own would hurt wild populations even more.

    personally, i would love to see a primary source of Nepenthes within the United States. Im tired of sending my money overseas. :P Why should Australia, Sri Lanka, Germany, and the Czech Republic have all the fun? also, i dont know how vendors would take that plan though, as it can exponentially reduce the price value of certain species...

    you think Neps are a hoot....wait until you hear the stories behind heliamphora.

    PS: @ColdCoffee: the seed grown dubia plants that you see floating around did not come from a private grower---they actually came from a well known Nepenthes primary distributor, Borneo Exotics which recently released a batch of them about 2 years ago. Borneo Exotics is presently one of those legitimate sources which do possess the proper paper work to harvest seed from wild populations.
    Last edited by amphirion; 02-19-2012 at 12:21 AM.
    " You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." -Inigo Montoya
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  7. #23

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    Last edited by ColdCoffee; 04-07-2012 at 01:59 AM. Reason: Closing accounts I dont use

  8. #24
    Moderator Cindy's Avatar
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    1. Were the Nepenthes seeds harvested legally?
    Maybe, depends on the country. It may be legal to collect but not legal to export. However, given the amount of seeds collected and sold...there ain't many left in the wild to keep the generations of plants going. So the collectors are not responsible people to begin with. But it is up the relevant authorities to stop them from exporting.

    2. Were the Nepenthes seeds imported into U.S.A. legally?
    Maybe, depends on the importer. Seeds sent to the States using the seeds import permit should be just seeds. No petal, no fruit, no sepal and no debris. And each species of seeds must not exceed 50. Take a look at the pics posted by dionae. Obviously, the seeds together with the fruits were never checked by the relevant authorities.

    Buying large quantities of seeds, of whatever species available only shows the lack of experience and expertise of the buyer in germinating the genus of plants. Nepenthes seeds need to be sufficiently mature and ripe before they can germinate. They also need to be stored properly to maximize germination rates. Mail is irradiated and a good number of the seeds do not survive the process. In the end, the buyer is paying very little for very little useful seeds. Or if the mail somehow avoids being irradiated, then the grower will have 500-1000 seeds and in turn several hundreds of seedlings. What's the point of having hundreds of mini maxima seedlings? The grower either conveniently allow most to die, rather than passing them on to other growers because the form or species is rare or uncommon.

    All these have been going on for years. Sigh...
    Cindy

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