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Thread: Poaching

  1. #25

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    With these discussions you must consider what the landscape looked like 20-50-100 years ago. The area I'm currently living in is being massively cleared to build more and more housing, they are doing nothing, nothing to preserve anything. The difference between when I was a child and today is shocking in the shear amount of concrete that has been added over my lifetime. This trend is not slowing but increasing, there needs to be responsible harvesting of seeds to ensure the survival of species. How many species are now only growing in personal/university collections because someone clearcut the native habitat? I know I have a few plants that were legally imported in my collection that are believed to be extinct in the wild. If someone did not collect and grow these plants before there habitat was destroyed they might be lost forever.

    Whether you like it or not people are destroying large areas of this planet to do whatever it is they are doing, look into gold mining before you buy another piece of jewelry or a new phone. When they are using phrases like $10-20 a yard and mine it, think of what that necklace/bracklet/ring/cell phone/laptop did to some forest/jungle out there. I can not in good conscience tell someone in another country to deny there family a "living wage" just to keep a plant alive in there backyard.

    I know nothing of the legal collection laws in Indonesia, China, ect but it is perfectly possible it it legal to wildly collect these seeds in those counties. Once collected it would not be illegal to import them with the proper permits into the US. Thus from E-bays point of view the seller would be doing nothing wrong and the listing would stand.

    Oddly enough the most responsible thing to do might be to actually buy the rare ones and get them properly imported into the hands of people that can sustain them in the long run.

  2. #26

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    Ditto on what BigBella commented on 07-02-2014, 12:52 PM!
    Last edited by Spooky1; 07-03-2014 at 03:47 PM.

  3. #27
    Hello, I must be going... Not a Number's Avatar
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    You people are deluding yourselves if you think these sellers are doing a favor by getting this material into the hands of growers worldwide. Without provenance or accurate species/hybrid identification this material is useless for habitat restoration. You are also fooling yourselves if you think they are only collecting a "few" pods. These people have thousands of sales on their US ebay accounts alone - probably averaging 800-900 sales a year. This is probably just the tip of the iceberg because it doesn't include eBay UK or other countries (separate accounts) and whatever other venues they may be selling these seeds through. Do you think someone who may be collecting the seeds illegally is going to take the time to accurately identify the taxon, pinpoint the location and just take a few pods here and there from plants in the vicinity? It's probably more slash and dash - a quick slash with the machete and stuff the flower scape into a haversack and run to sort it out later.

    And you should look at Stewart McPherson's (founder of the Ark of Life conservation organisation) arguments about seed harvesting of Nepenthes in the wild. Due to the nature of the genus - the length of time to reach maturity and the flowering timing of the plants - it is essential to have a continuity of different generations growing in the same area. Disruption of this continuity by over-harvesting seeds can eventually lead to the collapse of the population.
    Grand Hotel... always the same. People come, people go. Nothing ever happens.

  4. #28

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    In a perfect world I would completely agree with NaN, but we don't live there. Habitats are being destroyed and very little is being done to stop it, and that is not going to change in the next few years likely few decades. I'm not deluded I just understand the reality of what people will do for money. If/when these habitats are completely destroyed I'd prefer to have a good stock of species in the hands of capable growers that are willing to pass these species along to the next generations.

    When you have 8 bad choices, you are going to end up making a bad choice. Even if you managed to completely stop every person in the US from buying these seeds they would still be doing massive damage supplying everyone else. I've yet to see any practical solutions that have any chance of working.

    Has anyone verified that it is actually illegal to harvest Nep seeds from the wild in these countries? The word illegal is thrown around a lot. I've visited quite a few foreign counties and most in the US would be shocked at what is legal and accepted as normal in non westernized countries.

    While hiking in a few foreign counties when I was younger I witnessed a few collections of wild berries (narcotic type), completely legal to harvest. They basically chopped entire limbs off the trees and carried the limbs down the mountain to harvest the berries later so they would be fresher. I would assume they are doing the same with Nep seeds.

    I'm open to suggestions, educations is great but people still play the lotto all the time thinking they are going to win.

  5. #29
    sarracenia lover dionae's Avatar
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    You all should read about palm trees in the areas nepenthes grow. There won't be any natural habitats in 50 years lol(not an actual statistic).

  6. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not a Number View Post
    And you should look at Stewart McPherson's (founder of the Ark of Life conservation organisation) arguments about seed harvesting of Nepenthes in the wild. Due to the nature of the genus - the length of time to reach maturity and the flowering timing of the plants - it is essential to have a continuity of different generations growing in the same area. Disruption of this continuity by over-harvesting seeds can eventually lead to the collapse of the population.
    Cue the violins . . .

    Interestingly enough, the last few sizable contracts I had to germinate and/or tissue culture Nepenthes seed -- a very generous number of them -- were those collected by participants on both Chin Lee's and, most recently, Stewart McPherson's perennially promoted travels to SE Asia. As an aside, I just received the latest email, flogging a sixteen day trip to Sulawesi, assuring that the giddy participants would return within days of Christmas.

    "Ark of Life," dime-store conservancy groups or not, orchid and Nepenthes seeds are regularly harvested on all of these trips; and I can scarcely believe that the trip leaders are entirely ignorant of that.

    Dollars to doughnuts, I'll be asked to flask seed by New Years . . .
    Last edited by BigBella; 07-03-2014 at 09:09 PM.
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  7. #31
    sarracenia lover dionae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigBella View Post
    Cue the violins . . .

    Interestingly enough, the last few sizable contracts I had to germinate and/or tissue culture Nepenthes seed -- a very generous number of them -- were those collected by participants íon both Chin Lee's and, most recently, Stewart McPherson's perennially promoted travels to SE Asia. As an aside, I just received the latest email, flogging a sixteen day trip to Sulawesi, assuring that the giddy participants would return within days of Christmas.

    "Ark of Life," dime-store conservancy groups or not, orchid and Nepenthes seeds are regularly harvested on all of these trips; and I can scarcely believe that the trip leaders are entirely ignorant of that.

    Dollars to doughnuts, I'll be asked to flask seed by New Years . . .
    The end.

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