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Thread: INGR / International Nepenthes Grex Registry

  1. #9
    ps3isawesome's Avatar
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    Anyone who's worked in a large organization knows it's almost impossible for humans to all agree, have the same opinion, or have no objections. No body likes their ideas being taken lightly, put down, laughed at, blown off or faced with pessimism. Of course there are ideas that's eye rolling worthy :P (inside my mind of course) I still respond by saying "okay, how does that work"? It's more effective to solve problems than to endlessly focus on what the problems are.. It's true navigating through this process takes practice and skill. Also I find disagreement or difference of opinion necessary. I mean, can you guys imagine if no one objected to Terraform's functions and rules? I'd never want to be a part of an organization or society where people get together seeking only external validation, praises, demand conformity, or 100% agreement.

    In our day an age, people who put out new ideas always faces never ending criticism, judgement, and even personal attacks that are irrelevant to their work. Especially from people online who hide safely behind their computer, youtube comment section is a great example. I always applaud anyone who is courageous enough put forth their work despite the uncertainty, risk, and being emotionally exposed.

    I want to recommend one article and a document.
    Harvard Business Review - The Art of Giving and Receiving Advice
    https://hbr.org/2015/01/the-art-of-g...ceiving-advice

    Here's the beginning of this article
    Seeking and giving advice are central to effective leadership and decision making. Yet managers seldom view them as practical skills they can learn and improve. Receiving guidance is often seen as the passive consumption of wisdom. And advising is typically treated as a matter of “good judgment”—you either have it or you don’t—rather than a competency to be mastered.

    When the exchange is done well, people on both sides of the table benefit. Those who are truly open to guidance (and not just looking for validation) develop better solutions to problems than they would have on their own. They add nuance and texture to their thinking—and, research shows, they can overcome cognitive biases, self-serving rationales, and other flaws in their logic. Those who give advice effectively wield soft influence—they shape important decisions while empowering others to act. As engaged listeners, they can also learn a lot from the problems that people bring them. And the rule of reciprocity is a powerful binding force: Providing expert advice often creates an implicit debt that recipients will want to repay.

    But advice seekers and givers must clear significant hurdles, such as a deeply ingrained tendency to prefer their own opinions, irrespective of their merit, and the fact that careful listening is hard, time-consuming work. The whole interaction is a subtle and intricate art. On both sides it requires emotional intelligence, self-awareness, restraint, diplomacy, and patience. The process can derail in many ways, and getting it wrong can have damaging consequences—misunderstanding and frustration, decision gridlock, subpar solutions, frayed relationships, and thwarted personal development—with substantial costs to individuals and their organizations.

    Also this helps me check my logical fallacies at the door in discussions.
    Last edited by ps3isawesome; 01-05-2015 at 12:43 AM.

  2. #10
    Aristoloingulamata Dexenthes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ramdacc View Post
    Because people over value their own opinions and fight rigorously to prove that their reasoning is superior to anyone's who might disagree. Neither side wants to give ground because doing so would admit defeat so they take turns going back and forth kindly calling each other idiots. I say kindly because, of course, neither one will come right out and say it and neither side will admit to implying it even though their words are dripping with subtle criticism of the other's mental capacity.

    I was laughing my rear off reading the proboards thread just as I was the terrforums thread a few weeks ago. Just nerdy people sparring over nerdy things because they're nerds. Nothing wrong with being a CP nerd, by the way. . .
    You could not have said it better. XD

    I get great comedic value from watching it take place and also in contributing to it. I think the truly ironic part is that everybody involved in the argument probably has more in common with one another than with most other people in the world.
    LOOKING FOR: N. (argentii x bicalcarata) x {[(lingulata x edwardsiana) x (naga x hamata)] x [(klossii x undulatifolia) x (aristolochioides x rajah)]} Growlist: http://www.terraforums.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=124586

  3. #11
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    Even if the arguments over on the proboards have gone from logical to personal, I've found some of the posts to be very informative. My opinion on the subject has gone from a personal distaste for the "naming" aspect of a hobby full of greges, to an indifference mixed with respect for the idea of having a database of the exact clones of each species used in the parentage. The more I see this as an endeavor for nursery owners, the less it means to me. Further, like many of you have said, overly complex hybrids aren't plants I choose to grow, anyway.

  4. #12
    Whimgrinder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mato View Post
    Even if the arguments over on the proboards have gone from logical to personal, I've found some of the posts to be very informative. My opinion on the subject has gone from a personal distaste for the "naming" aspect of a hobby full of greges, to an indifference mixed with respect for the idea of having a database of the exact clones of each species used in the parentage. The more I see this as an endeavor for nursery owners, the less it means to me. Further, like many of you have said, overly complex hybrids aren't plants I choose to grow, anyway.
    Would you be more comfortable if the nurseries simply number a number code to their hybrids? (as opposed to using grex names)

  5. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whimgrinder View Post
    Would you be more comfortable if the nurseries simply number a number code to their hybrids? (as opposed to using grex names)
    Well, that's sort of the point I was getting at. I feel as though people who are reluctant to buy plants with grex names would acquiesce to the idea if the species involved were included somehow upon sale. If names work better for nursery owners, that's fine. I know some people use a numbering system, which, in theory, would serve a similar purpose, but it would obviously be strictly for inventory purposes, which isn't so different from what the grex system is already trying to accomplish. Since the point has been emphasized that this is all really for the breeders, not customers, I wouldn't really care if it were numbers, names, letters, wing-dings, etc.

  6. #14
    BS Bulldozer SubRosa's Avatar
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    All this is going to do is record more information about stuff that has been/will be done anyway. The information can be used or ignored as each person sees fit. I can sort of understand folks not wanting to use such information, but the rationale for arguing against the compiling of the information for others to use is thankfully beyond my understanding.
    Judge not lest ye be judged creates a cesspool. Judge others and prepare to be judged by them.
    Just know when to keep the verdict to yourself.

  7. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by SubRosa View Post
    All this is going to do is record more information about stuff that has been/will be done anyway. The information can be used or ignored as each person sees fit. I can sort of understand folks not wanting to use such information, but the rationale for arguing against the compiling of the information for others to use is thankfully beyond my understanding.
    Right, that's sort of how I've come to see it now, too. My original reaction, on an earlier thread, was one stemming from the sour taste left after seeing many greges posted online with dubious parentage, often times appearing nearly identical but with purported parents that were in no way similar. However, this may simply be a case of carelessness. But having moved past that, the idea of this database seems like it will serve breeders well in the end, should they choose to continue their breeding programs.

  8. #16
    Whimgrinder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SubRosa View Post
    the rationale for arguing against the compiling of the information for others to use is thankfully beyond my understanding.
    It defies logic, IMO.

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