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Thread: Nepenthes Hybrid Help

  1. #1
    I Am the Terror Of the Night! NemJones's Avatar
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    Nepenthes Hybrid Help

    So in the past few months, this plant has frozen all growth.
    All the pitchers stopped growing, and it didnt move.
    THen, three Leaves with developing pitchers shot out
    of the growth point at once. these 3 have continued growing and are producing massive pitchers. See below.

    The new developing tendrils are not normal. This is why im here asking for help.
    If anybody can give advice to whats going on with this plant.. I would be very grateful.
    I have heard everything from Heat stress, mutation, and growth point splitting.
    This is a BE clone, Nepenthes Spectabilis X Aristo.
    Conditions : Temps: Night 55 F , Day 70F-80F
    Humidity 82-62 day
    Light - 4 T5Ho

    Is ANY of this normal? I really love this plant
    and dont want to get rid of it.. but If its too warm,
    thats what Im going to have to do.

    Pitcher 1



    Pitcher 2 and 3. The largest Ive ever had on Any plant.


    The inner growing node. Note the brown and non moving pitchers. The 3 warped leaves
    In the center of the plant are the currently growing pitchers. the 3 that grew out together.






    The newest growing tendril and unknown secondary growth point.






    What is going on here and is there any way to save this plant

  2. #2
    Aristoloingulamata Dexenthes's Avatar
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    It kind of looks like it is going through burnt-out tissue culture syndrome. That is to say, when a plant starts to acquire defects because its genes have been replicated in TC too many times. I've had a N. spectabilis x aristolochioides start making weird traps and strange growth after a while.
    LOOKING FOR: N. (argentii x bicalcarata) x {[(lingulata x edwardsiana) x (naga x hamata)] x [(klossii x undulatifolia) x (aristolochioides x rajah)]} Growlist: http://www.terraforums.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=124586

  3. #3
    I Am the Terror Of the Night! NemJones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dexenthes View Post
    It kind of looks like it is going through burnt-out tissue culture syndrome. That is to say, when a plant starts to acquire defects because its genes have been replicated in TC too many times. I've had a N. spectabilis x aristolochioides start making weird traps and strange growth after a while.
    That was another thing I was wondering about. Man I hate TC.
    Either way im just hoping this thing doesnt melt into a pile of goo
    after the next year or so

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    Whimgrinder's Avatar
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    This hybrid has been observed doing this in many collections - my own included - and it's unclear what the problem is. Yes, it may have acquired genetic damage in tissue culture, or it could be a naturally occurring chimaera (which I'm more inclined to believe). One of mine - the female - developed very similar behavior two years ago, and I had to excise the aberrant growth. (Cut off the abnormal growth and force it to put its energy into its other, normal growth) it could be one specific clone of this hybrid has chimaera tissue in it and it surfaces in the growing tip eventually.

    its unlikely that your growing conditions are responsible for this VERY abnormal growth, since your listed temps are within tolerances for this hybrid.

  5. #5
    I Am the Terror Of the Night! NemJones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whimgrinder View Post
    This hybrid has been observed doing this in many collections - my own included - and it's unclear what the problem is. Yes, it may have acquired genetic damage in tissue culture, or it could be a naturally occurring chimaera (which I'm more inclined to believe). One of mine - the female - developed very similar behavior two years ago, and I had to excise the aberrant growth. (Cut off the abnormal growth and force it to put its energy into its other, normal growth) it could be one specific clone of this hybrid has chimaera tissue in it and it surfaces in the growing tip eventually.

    its unlikely that your growing conditions are responsible for this VERY abnormal growth, since your listed temps are within tolerances for this hybrid.
    Thank you. Would it be better to cut off this strange growth or just leave it and see what it does?

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    jurow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NemJones View Post
    Thank you. Would it be better to cut off this strange growth or just leave it and see what it does?
    Leave the growth point alone if it appears to be growing normally. It should be fine.

    I don't know the definite cause of these issues, but we've seen other threads about this specific cross doing strange things: http://www.terraforums.com/forums/sh...Hybrids!/page2

    My personal BE N. spectabilis x aristo (pics in the linked thread) has an 8-foot vine that recently aborted a flower and then activated pretty much every dormant node on the vine. Definitely odd behavior.

    As always when people throw terms around like burnout and genetic damage: I've had literally thousands of tissue cultured plants in my possession over the course of many years and have yet to see any major differences between them and the seed grown plants growing right next to them. If anything I have seen better results from selected TC plants overall. I also believe the plant in question is actually from a rather young culture compared to, say, Wistuba's N. hamata colonies.

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    Whimgrinder's Avatar
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    While it's true that we don't really know why some plants (mis)behave as they do, and it's unreasonable to blame tissue culture every time some aberration manifests itself (I loathe witch-hunt mentality myself), in this case I do believe the flaw is genetic. Mine behaved as if it was a chimaera - naturally occurring or otherwise - with distinct "strips" of conspicuously abnormal tissue mixed in with normal tissue, causing gross distortions of the foliage and pitchers. I wish now that I had photo-documented it before I cut that vine off and discarded it. There was nothing "normal" about it and I'm quite certain it was not the result of cultivation practices.

    Back to the matter at hand: the plant is too small to start hacking off pieces, so you better adopt a "wait-and-see" policy. You've verified that there are no thrips or mites, I assume?
    Last edited by Whimgrinder; 01-21-2015 at 08:01 AM.

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    jurow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whimgrinder View Post
    While it's true that we don't really know why some plants (mis)behave as they do, and it's unreasonable to blame tissue culture every time some aberration manifests itself (I loathe witch-hunt mentality myself), in this case I do believe the flaw is genetic. Mine behaved as if it was a chimaera - naturally occurring or otherwise - with distinct "strips" of conspicuously abnormal tissue mixed in with normal tissue, causing gross distortions of the foliage and pitchers. I wish now that I had photo-documented it before I cut that vine off and discarded it. There was nothing "normal" about it and I'm quite certain it was not the result of cultivation practices.

    Back to the matter at hand: the plant is too small to start hacking off pieces, so you better adopt a "wait-and-see" policy. You've verified that there are no thrips or mites, I assume?
    Oh, I certainly agree that there's something up with this cross since issues keep popping up. A chimera seems a likely explanation for some of what we've seen.

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