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Thread: N jacquelineae

  1. #17
    swords's Avatar
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    I do not believe the owner of the orchid shop is wild collecting (at least I hope not). I do not know from what company he receives his Neps from (possibly Malesiana Tropicals as that's where he orders the C. Clarke books from). He just runs a "yearly" trip to bring fanatics (mostly of orchids) to the jungles. He's an older fellow who's been running his greenhouse since the seventies (I think). Age doesnt mean intelligence but I hope he's on the up and up cos he's a nice very guy. Most plants he sells are very small yet which leads me to believe he's getting TC or seed grown stuff. Some of his Neps are in the "huge" catergory being taller than me with amazing pitchers.

    If you have the plant import permit you don't have to worry about getting fined do you? I just received my permit (w/ green & yellow stickers) but I don't know if that's all I need. I definately wanna have it all correct before I order anything!

  2. #18

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    Josh,

    I'm not familiar with all the US laws on the subject, but I believe the guy in the US who was recently fined did have an import permit and the best of intentions. If the country of export is a signatory to the CITES convention (and most countries are) then the plants have to be accompanied by a CITES export permit also, otherwise the shipment is in breach of international law and people at both ends are culpable. The guy who sent the plants can be prosecuted for smuggling (sending plants without due documentation) and if it can be shown that the importer "caused the illegal importation" e.g. offered money or other inducement to cause the plants to be sent, then the importer is also liable to prosecution in most countries.

    I think this is what just happended to the guy I mentioned in the U.S. He was advised to plead guilty and fined several thousand dollars. The alternative would have been a long legal battle that would have cost far more than this in legal fees.

    Don't want to sound as though I'm scare-mongering, but it's best to be careful not to make a mistake. Even an innocent mistake can be costly as ignorance of the law is no excuse.

    Incidentally, in the case above the parcel was labeled something like "toys" or "clothing" so there was no doubt that it was an attempt to smuggle on the part of the exporter. The poor guy who was caught at the US end suffered the penalty and is kindly warning everyone not to get caught in the same trap.

    Finally, I'm not trying to imply that your friend is dong anything wrong at all. Sounds like a great guy!
    Rob Cantley
    Nep Nut in Sri Lanka
    http://www.borneoexotics.com

  3. #19
    swords's Avatar
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    Thanks for the info on the permit thing!
    Most mailorder places seem to offer free CITES documents and phyto certificates either free of charge of for a small amount.
    That sucks that the box was mislabeled cos that really is suspicious to The Law. Was the company which this guy ordered from a real company who is well known and 'respected' or some fly by night industries incorporated private party seller/exporter? I want to open a terrarium/vivarium shop in Minneapolis in the next year or so I'd like to know who to avoid if they're supposedly well known and respected as there are about 3-4 SE Asian companies I'm looking at ordering starting stock from. I'd hate to have the shop close before it even opens from some crooked suppliers!
    [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif[/img]

  4. #20

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    Josh,

    The guy who sent the plants was an individual in Malaysia, that's all I know. I'm sure it wouldn't have been any of the genuine outfits that you might find on the internet.
    Rob Cantley
    Nep Nut in Sri Lanka
    http://www.borneoexotics.com

  5. #21
    swords's Avatar
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    Ah! That's good to know! I only want to buy from certified culture labs and artificial propagators. If the commecial guys are fine then I won't worry. WHat about seed from someone like Allen Lowrie? Is he allowed to be selling CP seed? I just got the catalogue the other day and would like only one of everything.... [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif[/img] but this discussion has made me a bit wary...

  6. #22
    Tony Paroubek's Avatar
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    Seed requires permits and certificates as well. All seed is supposed to have a phytosanitary certificate with it. And may or may not need a CITES permit as well depending on the CITES status of the plant.

    Drosera are not listed as CITES (if memory serves correct) so would only require that a phytosanitary certificate is sent with the seed. Problem is most people around the world don't know where to go to get a phyto before they ship something... AND there is often a large fee to obtain one. Nothing like spending 50 bucks to get a phyto for a 3 dollar packet of seed.. kinda kills your international business. ;<
    Tony
    Is that a Nepenthes in your pocket or you just happy to see me?

  7. #23

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    Nepenthes are all on CITES Appendix II except for N. rajah and N. khasiana which are on Appendix I. CITES permits are not required for seeds or pollen of Appendix II plants, but are required for Appendix I plants. I'm sure that Allen Lowrie knows all this.

    Phytocerts are an entirely different matter. I'm pretty sure that technically all seeds shipped iknternationally should be accompanied by a phyto, but I'm sure almost no-one bothers. Phyots are governed by different laws and potential penalties than CITES. Seeds of CP's are very less likely to be harboring harmful bugs than say nuts or bulbs. I've actually been refused issue of a phytosanitary certificate in one country for seeds, because the Department of Agriculture concerned thought they would be making fools of themselves if they gave me one for a pinch of such tiny seeds. They told me to "wrap them in my handherchief!"
    Rob Cantley
    Nep Nut in Sri Lanka
    http://www.borneoexotics.com

  8. #24

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    Hi,

    I happened to be reading these posts during a break at work and realized some pertained to me, lol.
    I am the poor guy Rob was referring to. I paid a $2500 fine to the USDA for buying some plants from Malaysia(N. ramispina and large red sanguinea). And yes, I did have an import permit. I was waiting for the stickers(they negelcted to send them-twice) when the guy in Malaysia launched the shipment. Even though had a permit that pre-dated the infraction, and Phyto and CITES are supplied on the other end, since I ordered them, the USDA considered me the catalyst of the whole thing. I might have been able to take this to a hearing and win, but the fine could have gone as high as $10,000 if they thought me guilty. Because the guy lied about the contents, that is called smuggling. Also, a insect crawled into the box, to make things worse.
    I hope that clears some things up.

    Joe

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