Getting larger pitcher's

[nepenthes gracilis]

Augstin, all Nepenthes (Cp's in general and regular plants too) need light to photosynthesize regardless of the part of the plant growing. Pitchers would have a good amount of chlorophil in them but not as much as the leaves do, if a pitcher dies (which readily happens) then the ability to photosynthesize is lost, whilst a leafe is generally a much longer lived part of the plant and therefore can be concluded that it should have more chloropasts in it,as the plant can make much more use of it. The pitcher is basically a temporary food obtaining aparatus while a leafe is a much longer (not perminate) part of the plant.

 

[Spectabilis73]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (neps @ Sep. 13 2003,11:39)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Rather, I think that the reason people are seeing increased pitcher size in this context is simply due to the fact that the developing tendrils have support (they are not hanging).  Consequently, larger pitchers may grow from such points without putting undue strain on the plant itself.  I've observed this phenomenon many times, with plants growing in many different media.  A particular example which comes to mind is that of an N. rafflesiana which was producing an upper pitcher for me about six years ago.  As the tendril lengthened, I placed a wooden dowel in its path, around which it subsequently wound.  This dowel was anchored to provide support to the pitcher which developed from the tendril, and it grew into the largest N. rafflesiana upper I've ever had -- 40 cm long!  It was fantastic, and the dowel provided no extra humidity at all!

The moral of the story: if you want larger pitchers, provide optimal conditions for the entire plant, and support the tendrils as they develop with whatever you have at hand.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I have to disagree in a way. personally, my nepenthes ventricosa started to get bigger pitchers in the fall, when humidity was raised. one pitcher was on the soil, and it grew to about 4-5 inches. it then grew another pitcher that hung, which grew to almost 5 inches.

this might not make sence, but i have to disagree with you with plants with small pitchers, at the plant can easily support it, but i agree with you with plants with large pitchers. the plant with large pitchers can't support the pitchers easily (like your 15 inch rafflesiana pitcher), so when it has support, you get larger pitchers.

(this may go against what i have just said, but maybe lower pitchers are generally larger because they have support!? )

ok, does this make any sence to you guys? if not, remember i stayed up till midnight, and didn't get to sleep untill 2...

 

[Slizarus]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">ok, does this make any sence to you guys? if not, remember i stayed up till midnight, and didn't get to sleep untill 2... [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

That's why a lot of things I say don't make sense.

 

[PlantAKiss]

Long ago I noticed that any tendril resting on the moss in my tank seemed to produce pitchers very fast (I don't know about "larger" as there is no way to compare what the pitcher would have been sans moss). I don't know why, but its what I've observed and I'm no nep expert. So I try to make sure that moss is around my plants and it seems the leaves often drop til the tendril is resting...as if they seek it. All this, bearing in mind my neps are not HUGE, they are inside tanks and not out in a free environment like a hanging basket.

Just my observations. But kinda neat to see others have noticed this as well.

Suzanne

 

[nepenthes gracilis]

Spec keep in mind the plants you are also mentioning are quite easy to grow. For an example to get an N. macrophylla to make an 8 inch pitcher is quite a devoted and hard task. Getting ventricosa to pitcher isn't really hard. I hope you see that point.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">this might not make sence, but i have to disagree with you with plants with small pitchers, at the plant can easily support it, but i agree with you with plants with large pitchers. the plant with large pitchers can't support the pitchers easily (like your 15 inch rafflesiana pitcher), so when it has support, you get larger pitchers.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Exactly, that is the point Jeff is trying to explain.

With this in mind here's some quick photos:

32.5 cm tall N. truncata pitcher produced hanging. This is 2.5 cm taller than the last one which was resting on the bench.

7.5 cm tall N. diatas 'meadow form' produced sitting on another Nepenthes pot of sphagnum. This is compard to 5 cm pitchers earlier.

 

[mat_man444]

There is one way to test wether it is the support, humidity, or something in the lfs makes the pitchers grow larger. Somebody has got to use some rods to support there pitchers. Then put plastic bags over a few pitchers, and put lfs under more pitchres. Also maybe tie some lfs to the pitcher without any support.

oh yeah my nep is way to small to do all of these. So i'm just going to stick with the lfs. My nep is a N. ventricosa and has pitchers 5/8 inches tall. I've got everything else about it posted under N. ventricosa how long it takes to grow.

 

[D muscipula]

One thing i've noticed since i moved into my new pad is that the N. ventricosa on my windowsill has put out a pitcher twice as big as all previous pitchers.  I have two or three possible reasons (too many variable changed all at once!):

1- Increased light - direct sunlight for more hours of the day
2- Cold nights - with the improved ventilation and the onset of fall, the nighttime temps are around 60 in the room.  I don't think it liked the hot summer weather, either
3- Fluctuating temps (night and day variation) - before the room was the same temp most of the time

Of course, the change in conditions have caused all the old pitchers to die off, but if the new ones are all going to be 2x as big, i don't mind! You can also see the pitcher that was decapitated by a squirrel, a minor incident in a much bigger war...

Pic:

 

[agustinfranco]

All:

Before we start testing hypothesis, we would like to make sure that most parameters are the same for all plants being tested and only 1 or 2 parameters are measured at any one time.

Agustin

 

[lithopsman]

I would like to add a comment,
My ventricosa is producing a pithcer at least a half inch taller than the previous pitchers, and it's still growing! Here's the reason for my posting: It is this plants first pitcher to rest on top of the LFS covering the pot! It also has the most mature freatures yet, most red, most bulbous bottom, etc. I don't know what the true factor is, but there is another bit of evidence supporting this hypothesis!! Also, this is my 1000th post!!

And I intentionally made it in the Nep forum, my favorite of course!!!!!

 

[mat_man444]

well I stuck my pitchers on LFS lets see what happens.

 

[Beagle]

The largest pitcher on both my ventrata so far did a quick loop around the edge of the basket, very near but not touching the moss, then got huge. What I notice about it is that it had room to grow, without a lot of leaves or other pitchers in the way. It had one dying pitcher nearby for support for a while, but just long enough? Location, location, location? Just to throw something else out there. I don't know.

On the other plant, a group of large pitchers grew together hanging off the side of the other plant. I've posted pix of that clump. None are as big as that one though.

My personal feeling is that the overall health of the plant will determine pitcher size, which will vary naturally from pitcher to pitcher all the time. The pitchers on all my neps are growing bigger than when I got them.

I can't rule out the environmental factors on pitchers though. I've seen lots of potential pitchers get crowded by nearby leaves or pitchers, blocked by another plant, or get big seemingly out of nowhere. One ventrata leaf was looped by a confederate jasmine vine along a support chain about a week ago, which is holding the vertical growth of the whole ventrata up nicely. I'll be interested in seeing how that pitcher turns out.

Mostly the pitchers that grow right on the moss in my baskets are not the biggest. But, of course, there are a couple REALLY big ones, just behind that one I mentioned at the top. Just to add to the confusion...

 

[Tony Paroubek]

The problem with this whole concept is you have no way of knowing how large the pitcher was going to get beforehand. So saying it is now 1/2" larger than the last one means nothing. Maybe it was going to be a 1/2" larger even if it was dangling in mid air. Most likely what is changing (as Beagle mentions) are environment factors and plant nutrition/health/size from one pitcher to the next.

Tony

 

[Andenes]

I agree with Tony. Nepenthes are really inexplainable plants. You can't really predict things from their behavior. Take my rafflesiana for example: it made a pitcher three times its 'regular' size and I didn't even gave it special care. Maybe they like it some way and maybe they don't. Right now I'm taking some observations from my ventricosa; it's producing three pitchers on which two are dangling in mid air and one is sitting on the moss. The one sitting on the moss is growing very very slow and the others are growing fast and big in size. It also depends on the environment your giving it too. A friend once told me that you have to try and create a little environment more like the nepenthes would have in the wild and the plant will obviously grow very very happy.

Cheers,
Erick

P.S. The friend I'm talking about is non other than mindmaze

 

[Beagle]

When we had rainy day after rainy day in our potentially broiling August, the pitchers just got massive on their own. I did not have to do a thing except let them sit in conditions that must remind them of home.

Light, until it cooks them. Soil, if a plant is cramped. Water and misting. Food. Those four have made the pitchers on all my plants get larger. Feeding usually consists of leaving the porch light on.

I bought some large, but sickly looking, plants. Those are probably good for judging what makes pitcher size go up, as mere maturity is out of the way.

The pitcher size on all my lowlanders (all I've got) seems to track the overall conditions. In July we did not get the rain, and I had to do all I could to keep some of them from baking. Growth and pitcher size shot up in August. Even a couple days of really hot dry weather makes the plants look not-so-well.

I would focus on which factor you have trouble controlling. In my case it's the hot weather, possible cold snaps, dry snaps, or too much sun. I've only had to deal with the first and last so far. Having plenty of shade, water, and misting was critical in June-July for me. We had temps in the mid-90s on occasion. But, not right where my neps are kept, fortunately.

I just got some little lowlanders from a certain "dark forest" terrarium company. They needed light so badly that the leaves look like they are growing from a different material now that Florida sun is available. They were not even pitchering. They are now, two weeks since delivery. Our local humidity averaging about 70% over the last couple weeks hasn't hurt either.

 

[agustinfranco]

Hi all:

If one were to measure pitchers that are sitting on sphagnum moss versus those which are not and then get an average, that would be fantastic. However, as I mentioned before all other parameters such as light, temperature and overall humidity must be the same. If somebody's plant is growing in very low humidity. Anything that increases it, such as sphagnum moss will help the plant's development. I don't agree with the fact that Nepenthes are unpredictable. What is unpredictable is all the factors that one must control to get a healthy nepenthes in your terrarium or greenhouse.

Now that we are talking about terrariums, any plant grown in a terrarium would be very useful to get credible results if one were to grow pitchers with and without sphagnum moss, because most conditions there are constant for all parts of the plant.

Agustin

 

[goldtrap2690]

this porbabaly does'nt have much to do with this topic but i remebr that my grandma used to put plastic bags with a spray of water on the fruits of her guava tree , i think she did that to get bigger fruits and it turned out that the fruits did'nt get realy big , just avaerage size but theyw ere still bigger then last years yealed of fruit so porbably humodty has something to do as well .

 

[Slizarus]

I'm going to try it......
I'll try my

Bical:in a terrarium 80% humidity, support with sand/peat..getting direct light for
12 hours...little or no temp fluctuation

Ventrata:Outside, 50-80% humidity, free hanging, 10 hours of shade 4 of direct evening light... 55-85 degrees

Spectabilis:Windowsill 70-90 humidity, Support with sphagnum, filtered light 14 hours a day......69-80 degrees...

I'll see how it does in a month...

 

[Slizarus]

There are probelms with it...but it will be something to do regardless

 

[Zongyi_Yang]

hmmm. this test may not work. nepenthes leaves grow on top of each other. only when a leaf is mostly mature would it split and send out a new one. this can cause some problems. the first pitcher may have differn't enviroment changes than the second one. the second pitcher may grow smaller with the stress of growing the first pitcher. another problem is that the new leaf may be more mature than the last, yeilding bigger pitchers. the new leaf may aslo be higher up and closer to the light. my point is that you have to have the same plants grow pitchers at exactly the same place and time, at the same heights and same maturity levles of the plant, etc. if it isn't, many changes can happen between the long time between the development 2 pitchers. Zongyi (i am sorry to ruin anyones fun here

)

 

[colinliew]

It's certainly not a laboratory experiment, but I'm not picky, even the most circumstantial evidence will do for me