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Thread: Is this bad?

  1. #1

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    My N.alata, N.spathulata, and N. spathulata x spectabilis are grrowing really well, but the leaves are getting smaller but the new pitchers are the same size. Is that okay or is it bad
    Paradise found is paradise lost
    -The Future Of Life
    The world is just big enough for us to not realize how small it really is.

    Change is the only thing constant.

  2. #2

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    Carcinos,

    It sounds dubius at first, but in nature, the pitchers:leaf ratio are more dramatic than what you see mostly in cultivation. In some of the old CPN issues, the pitchers of some Nepenthes looked like they were longer than the leaves.
    If this started right after you got them, I would guess your light levels are really good and you are getting more compact growth. If you have had them a while and nothing has changed, then I admit I have to wait for somebody else's input.

    Regards,

    Joe

  3. #3
    Tony Paroubek's Avatar
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    Light, moisture, temperature levels will all affect the size of the leaves. If it is a well established plant and had no major changes in its environment then I would be concerned.

    If they are recent additions then it is very common for the plant to go through an adjustment period because of environmental changes and probably also a recent unpotting and repotting. If this is the case and the plants appear to be growing well and healthy then I would not be concerned.

    I am glad to see you noted that pitcher size however is not decreasing as this is also a good way to judge the health of the plant. I find that many new plants I put in my greenhouse often produce smaller thicker leaves while simultaneously producing larger and larger pitchers. Eventually they regain the size they were originally and are producing much larger pitchers at the same time.

    Perhaps you can give some information on light and moisture levels and temperature ranges?

    Tony
    Is that a Nepenthes in your pocket or you just happy to see me?

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    they have an eastern exposure with light coming throught the skylight and the window, temps are usually 60-75, and the plants are misted 3 times a day with frequent waterings
    Paradise found is paradise lost
    -The Future Of Life
    The world is just big enough for us to not realize how small it really is.

    Change is the only thing constant.

  5. #5
    swords's Avatar
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    Tony, I'm curious do you have a light meter? Could you tell us what are the number of footcandles in your GH? I have used my cameras light meter and sheet of white paper to test my highland tank light-ranges from 200fc (f 2.8) under the bench where the orchids are to 700 -800fc (f 6) where the hamata is (it's getting reddended leaves and has a 1.5:1 pitcher to leaf ratio it was nearly 2:1 when I got it from you) the latest pitcher may be 2:1 but it'll be another week or two before it is fully inflated and opens.
    I was just curious if you've ever measured your light levels throughout the day. Since I'm so pleased with the speed/ease with which this one is growing I'm just curious what might happen if I were to have even higher levels (right now it's using 175 watts of power compacts and 80 watts of normal flourescents).

  6. #6
    Tony Paroubek's Avatar
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    Sorry Josh I don't have a light meter ;< I could use the camera deal but I think that a reading during the Spring/Summer would be more appropriate as Winters here are pretty dreary. Remind me next May hehe

    I would think there is a theoretical limit before the light becomes so bright that it starts doing more harm than good. Light level is also just one factor that will determine pitcher size. Moisture and temperature would be the other big ones IMO. The trick is to figure out which is the limiting one for your plants. With your set up I would suspect that your correct in thinking light intensity since you have very good control over temperatures and moisture levels. And as you mention color in the leaves is a good indicator for light levels.

    700-800 foot candles is good for indoor growing but it is still fairly low. Perhaps someone growing under HID lighting knows how many foot candles their plants get. This would be a good comparison. It wouldn't surprise me if the plants in the greenhouse are getting 2000fc during the summer months when the main shade cloth is on. During the winter the main shade cloth is off and footcandles are much higher but the sun is also not as hot. (although 8 weeks of clouds followed by 1 sunny day is enough to burn the plants ;x)

    How do you do the camera thing? I can try getting a reading when/if we have a sunny day here next.
    Tony
    Is that a Nepenthes in your pocket or you just happy to see me?

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    swords's Avatar
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    Hi Tony,
    All you need is a white sheet of printer paper (non glossy no crinckles or folds) and lay the paper where the plants would be sitting. With your camera in Auto Exposure mode zoom in so as to fill the entire frame with the white paper (shooting 1-3 feet away and looking down at the paper at about 45* angle so you won't make shadows) then press your shutter down 1/2 way this should meter the white and give an f number on either the little LCD or in the viewfinder
    Then the f numbers should translate to:
    f /2.8 200 fc
    f /4 370 fc
    f/5.6 750 fc
    f/8 1500 fc
    f/11 2800 fc
    f/16 5000 fc
    f/ 16 is the cloudless summer day at noon with the sun directly overhead and is called "Sunny 16" by photographers. Once I get the metal halide wired up I will try the same trick and see what that says, I'm hoping it'll be at least 1500.

  8. #8

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    I remember in an old post, that someone said fertilizing can often cause stunted plants? But I suppose that might also cause the plant to not pitcher... What about superthrive usage?

    -Lia

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