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N. clipeata

  • #21
Ah, well, if complex hybrids were made, as Andreas indicates,
then that would certainly account for the variation we've
seen in the photos. I was not aware that such complex hybrids
had been created....

For what it's worth, I have a specimen from Andreas which
is labeled "clone 1" and I am absolutely convinced that it
is pure N. clipeata. It is shown on my website:
Plants with Attitude.

In any case, this has been a very interesting thread of discussion!
 
  • #22
Andreas,

Thank you for taking a look at this thread and clarifying the situation with regard to the seed production at Munich.  I had been told in the past (actually not by you, but by someone who claimed to have conversed directly with Henning von Smelling, the curator of Munich Botanical Gardens) that pollen used to produce half the seeds was obtained from pure N. eymae and the other half from a pure N. clipeata.  I do however, accept that this is probably incorrect and that your version is almost certainly more accurate, which explains a great deal.  A complex hybrid is quite believable.  Cliff Dodd has this clone as well as clip-2 and three other clones obtained from your sterile cultures.  He says that both clip-1 and clip-2 grow about 2 to 3 times faster than the clones you supplied, which would indicate possible hybrid vigor.

Based on the information in this thread and some other information available from other sources, I would now have to agree with Joachim and Andreas.  Never mind, it's a great plant anyway and it'll be fun to see any new emerging characteristics.  Pity from a conservation aspect though, since more clones of true N. clipeata around in cultivation would be highly desirable.  
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Tony, thanks for putting this up a a separate thread.  We've seen some very interesting photographs as a result, not to mention expert input from various people.  The PFT forum is an excellent aid to discussion.
 
  • #23
Hi Tony and all others,
Joachim Danz asked me for my opinion to the photos of N.clipeata#1 posted by Dustin and You.
When I saw these(really phantastic) photos I thougt, that it can not be the true species,and according with Andreas I think that it is an F2 hybrid, with N.clipeata and N.emey backcrossed with N.clipeata again.
I know the plants which have been grown in Munich years ago and they had 2 or 3 N.clipeata and there have been 3 manmade hybrids :N.clipeata x ventricosa
N.clipeata x emey and N.clipeata x veitchii (low)
They tried for years to get the male and female clip into flower at the same time.
One year (maybe 6 or 7 years ago)they managed this and the flower was pollinated with clip ,but also,some of the other Hybrids have been placed on the same flower.
It is possible that there was an insect helping to make some mess with carrying the pollen all over the flower(maybe)
I culivate a plant of the fist crossing N.clipeata x emey and I am shure ,that it is not the same that is shown on these pictures.

Chris
 
  • #24
Very interesting stuff. This has been the best thread since I joined this forum. Truly the kind of "meat and potatoes" discussions I had hoped to find. I was looking at some past discussions yestersay, and there was one called "Drool" that had pages of posts, but it was way out of control and very silly.
An F2 hybrid makes sense, but my knowledge is way too limited to make that connection. Obviously people were growing these plants very successfully before Andreas got them into cultivation for most of us.
How many wild plants are there in cultivation? You would hope there was a male and female growing somewhere between the people that have original plants.
I think Rob has been working hard at that possibility.

Regards,

Joe
 
  • #25
Thanks Christian for the additional information. It is great that folks such as yourself and Andreas with first hand information are able to share it so that we may all have a better understanding what might have happened. As you suggest it is also quite possible that an insect helped to mix up pollen once it was on the plant or if there had been one of the hybrids in flower at the same time. One thing I have noticed is a light almost citrus fragrance coming from the male inflorescence in my greenhouse.

Do you have a picture of your N. clipeata x eymae?

Tony
 
  • #26
I agree with Joe that this really is a most interesting thread. Perhaps it's not to everyone's taste, and the fun and frivolrous threads have their place too. However, I do believe that this one is really unusually important. There are some people lurking out there, viewing this thread but not necessarily posting, who are earnestly involved with a project to try to help save N. clipeata from total extinction - not from the wild, that is pretty much inevitable - but from the planet as a whole. The number of views that this thread has received says a lot for people's interest and concern, which is very encouraging.
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  • #27
It would be more fun for me if I had a N. clipeata
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  • #28
Don't worry Nathaniel, seems I don't really have it either!
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  • #29
Hi,

many thanks to Andreas and Christian for joining this thread and sharing their thoughts. Also Johannes Marabini and Thomas Rimsl did reply to my request by email and phone. Both did see N. clipeata in habit and are sure that Tony's plant is not a pure N. clipeata. Johannes did second that the hyprid Andreas mentions (N. clipeata x N. eymai) was used for sure to pollinate the female N. clipeata.

The main reason for the confusion surrounding the plants from the Munich botanical garden is, that the person who did pollinate the female flower with different male pollen and the person who did harvest the seed were not identical. The flower was only labeled with different coloured thread and not with plant names - so wrong labeled seed was distributed as pure N. clipeata...

Thomas was propably one of the last Nepentophiles to see N. clipeata in habit. In 1993 he discovered a new location for N. clipeata on Mt. Kelam about 1100m asl. These plants did grow about 1 km away from the originally described type location. They did grow in deep grasses in patches of Sphagnum. Those plants seemed to be softer and the pitchers were even more constricted in the middle than most other known N. clipeata. He did write a short article including two pictures of these plants in "Das Taublatt" Vol. 24 1994/2.

Joachim
 
  • #30
Tony
unfortunatly I have no picture of this plant(N.clipeata x emey)
because it has no pitchers at this time .I took some cuttings of it 2 months ago.
It is easily to distinguish from the "real" ones ,because it is intermediate between the parents ,only sometimes showing roundish leafs and beeing red flushed over the leafs all the time.The upper pitches are much more like these of N.emey.
It is an easy grower and a good climber (N.clipeata never climbs)
Chris
 
  • #31
Hi all,

before answering to this most interesting topic I decided to make some pics. This takes a bit of time because I still prefer the old method of slides. And it takes a while to load them up.
This is a pic of a male, wild collected plant which shows some details of the pitcher. Pics of hybrids I grow will follow as soon as I have scanned them.

nclipeat1.jpg


Regards

Stefan
 
  • #32
bump for those that may have missed this great discussion!
 
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