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Thread: N. clipeata

  1. #1
    Tony Paroubek's Avatar
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    Lots of good talk about N. clipeata clone clip-1. So I am starting this thread to further the discussion. I will post more pictures later but lets get it started with this one.
    [img]http://home.**********.com/nepenthesgracilis/clipeata-%20large%20pitcher.JPG[/img]


    Reply from Joachim:
    Rob,

    it is a bit difficult to make a judgement on the N. clipeata from this picture alone. The lower half of the pitcher in the foreground seems not to match the globose shape one would expect from a N. clipeata. Also the leaf base and the petiole of the newest leaf before the flower stalk does not look like N. clipeata from this angle. The colour of the petiole is not as red as one would expect from a plant grown under good conditions. (Of course I know, colours are normally not used to identify plants.)

    More details from different parts of the plant would definitely help in identifying it. From first sight I would vote against a pure N. clipeata - it does look more like a complex hybrid to me.

    Joachim



    Is that a Nepenthes in your pocket or you just happy to see me?

  2. #2
    Tony Paroubek's Avatar
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    Top view of a mature leaf:
    Is that a Nepenthes in your pocket or you just happy to see me?

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    Joachim,

    Thanks for your observations. The lack of globose base to the pitcher is a good point. However, although this plant is mature sexually, I think it isn't really dimensionally fully grown yet.

    The origins of clone clip-1 are the seeds distributed from Munich Botanical Gardens. The female parent was wild collected N. clipeata. The flower spike was pollinated partially with N. clipeata pollen (from another wild collected plant) and also with (according to Andreas Wistuba) N. eymae pollen. The controversy arises over the assertion that seeds were mixed up when sent out (something the Director of Munich Gardens angrily denies). So, from the facts I believe we have so far, it's either pure N. clipeata, or N. clipeata x eymae, but is unlikely to be a complex hybrid. I agree that the apparent differences between this plant and N. clipeata as we know it (and let's face it, we have few records other than taxanomic descriptions and Robert Kresanek and Ch'ien Lee's photos) may point to a complex hybrid. However, I don't see that's possible from what I have been told so far of the history of this clone.

    I've asked Andreas to take a look at this thread. Let's see if he comes up with something.
    Rob Cantley
    Nep Nut in Sri Lanka
    http://www.borneoexotics.com

  4. #4

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    Hi Tony and Rob,

    quite interesting. You might have seen my plant which does originate from the same offspring but does look quite different. Even the leafes do match the shape and dimension given in Cheek & Jebb's taxonomic revision. Here some details of my plant:

    Peristome and inner surface of lid:



    Leaf:


    Leaf base:


    A total view of my plant and the pitchers can be found on my HP: http://home.arcor.de/j.danz/N_clipeata_f.html

    Joachim

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    First of all, nice plants, Tony, and thank you for sharing your
    photos with us, Dustin!

    As for the debate, I can tell you that I have three different
    clones of this species, all from Andreas Wistuba. Moreover,
    all of them exhibit the classic features of N. clipeata.
    For this reason, I must say that I find the form of the pitcher
    displayed in the imaged linked from Tony's first message
    above to be a bit questionable perhaps. Also, is the pitcher
    shown associated with the smaller plant on the left side of
    the image, or is it from the plant on the right side, which has
    been tied to a stake for support? Or, are these even the same
    plant? Certainly, the large plant on the right side appears
    to have highly peltate leaves.... Please clarify.

  6. #6
    Tony Paroubek's Avatar
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    I have multiple large plants of the Clip-1 clone. (and apparently 2 different types of plants as well) If you look closely at the picture you will see two large stems tied to stakes. These are different plants growing side by side. The pitcher showing is originating from the side shoot to the left of the pitcher. The pitcher originates from the leaf which is partly covering the front of the pitcher. I will take more pictures tomorrow of the two different clones I have. As well as look for differences between the larger plants. None of the plants I have are making leaves as large as they originally had. Unfortunately they also never had any pitchers on them when I got them. There is a large change in internode length and stem thickness in my care. Some of the plants have been developing pitchers in the air and others have been forming on with the pitchers resting on a solid surface. I will try and look for a pattern here also.

    I understand and agree with all the discrepancies. I am as much confused as everyone else. From what I have seen in other N. clipeata hybrids it looks like none of them either.
    Tony
    Is that a Nepenthes in your pocket or you just happy to see me?

  7. #7

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    Hmmm. Thanks for the clarification, Tony. If I understand you
    correctly, you are stating that both plants shown
    are specimens of what you call the clip-1 clone.

    While I have not seen this species in situ,
    and am certainly not a taxonomist, every specimen of this
    species which I've seen has bright red stems which are covered
    with a fine, brown indumentum, which appears to be the case
    with the plant on the left, unlike the plant on the right.
    Thus, I would guess that these two are not the same clone.

    If I've misinterpreted your last posting, please let me know.

  8. #8
    Tony Paroubek's Avatar
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    Ah I see what you mean plant on the left vs on the right..

    The 2 staked stems on the right are the old stems of 2 different plants. Both are showing new stems on the left of the pitcher. The lower one is a side branch from one of the stems on the right (the further back one). The new red stem left and above the pitcher showing is the top of the vine that is just to the right of the pitcher.

    So all my large plants show the red color and brown hair. The red color seems to have faded with age or was never fully developed where they were growing previously. I have not grown them long enough to say it is from age. There does seem to be a distinctive line though from growth put on while in my care vs the previous owner. If it were not 10 below outside and dark I would go snap some pictures ;<
    Tony
    Is that a Nepenthes in your pocket or you just happy to see me?

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