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Thread: New pitcher opened on my nep.

  1. #1

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    I posted some pictures a week ago of a new nep. that I got, and most people said it was a N. x 'Coccinea.' Someone said that "a new pitcher will reveal its true identity." I just wanted to see if y'all still think this is a N. x 'Coccinea."?

    Also I was wondering if someone could tell me how long pitchers on the coccinea usually live?

    Thanks [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif[/img]

    [img]http://home.**********.com/dfalkanger/erase%20006.jpg[/img]

    EDIT: Oops, I meant to put this thread in the "identify that plant" forum.
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    It looks more like the very similar N. morganiana but when they mean "a new pitcher will reveal it's identity" they mean (or should mean) a new pitcher that is formed from a new leaf that emerged and was formed fully in your conditions. Although I wait about 3-4 pitchers before I think I'm seeing the real color and pattern because as the plant grows in over the months it will often develop even more color.

    I have several Neps that were sold as "N. Coccinea" only one of which is the textbook solid red pitchers. One is a speckled variety which is made by the same parent plants and simply a different coloration. All the Coccinea related hybrids could simply be called a "Coccinea group" as there's many varieties and variation between plants and sources selling plants called N. coccinea, some have given them fancy names like Morganiana, Wriglyana (Trent is Mr. hybrid he has a few other names to add that I've forgotten), etc. But they do all originate from N. x Hookeriana (ampullaria x rafflesiana) x mirabilis...

    So technically, yes it can be called "N. Coccinea" by parentage but specifically it's one of the other varieties. [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/alien.gif[/img]

    eyes crossing yet? [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif[/img]

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    Quote (swords @ Sep. 29 2003,06:37)
    eyes crossing yet? [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif[/img][/QUOTE]
    Maybe a little, but you explained it very well. Thanks swords.

    I am also not sure what the x's mean inbetween genus and species names? Example: (N. x 'coccinea&#39[img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif[/img] From what I have seen I think it means 'hybrid.' Not 100% sure though?
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    Yes, a "x'means a hybrid. It appears before the name when it's given a name, or between the two species that make a hybrid. I am not sure what that plant is. Trent would be the man to ID it. I see what swords means by lookimg like N. x morganiana. I kind of thought "wrigleyana" when I saw it, though if it was a TC plant bought from a nursery, then N. x coccinea is the likely culprit. Labels are not always accurate.
    Last night, of all places, at Target I saw some large, nice Sarracenia x wrigleyana, that had nice labels calling them "Cobra Lilies".

    Regards,

    Joe

  5. #5
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    Hi, that "x" denotes that it's a hybrid. However, when you're dealing with a cultivar (hybrid with defined characteristics, since two hybrids of identical parrentage can look quite different), you should write " x 'cultivar name' " instead of " N. (mom)x(dad)."
    Did that help?
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    YOU! Outta my gene pool!

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    Swords answered pretty concisely. The true name of N. coccinea is not a cultivar (a single, recognised individual plant), but describes part of a grex (siblings from the same seed pod). Long ago in the late 1800's, when James Taplin once again crossed his male N. hookeriana onto his his female N. mirabilis, he sowed the seed and had successful germination. He raised the baby Nepenthes until individual characteristics began to emerge. Some of the seedlings had equal red spots on a field of bright yellow-green, others were pink tinged, yet others were nearly solid red-very heavy spotting. In bright light they were practically solid red. The group of seedlings that were nearly solid red were named Nepenthes coccinea. Exactly how many there were is long forgotten, but from amongst this similar group there were males and females.
    Zip ahead to late twentieth century, the 1980's. A large Dutch(actually, Belgian) wholesale nursery goes into mass tissue culturing of Nepenthes. Seeds will be need. In a collection somewhere, a female N. coccinea blooms. It is recognised as a source of seed, and its easy to grow and very attractive! A similar plant is in bloom that's a male. The male serves as pollinator and seed is produced. The seed is put into tissue culture and the young plantlets are given mom's name: N. coccinea. To this day, these N. 'coccinea' are produced and sold around the world. I don't know for sure, but all the plants could very well be from a single seed-they are identical. Any variation I've seen is purely cultural. Also, it really looks like coccinea..not like Henryana, robusta or Morganiana...so I suspect the male used was also a N. 'coccinea'.
    By the way, true N. Morganiana is a cultivar. It was a single plant given as a gift to a Mrs Morgan. It is a female plant, and was a reciprocal cross: a female hookeriana was pollinated by a male mirabilis.
    And the "x" is frequently used to designate a hybrid, but is not required when describing a plant.
    Hope I wasn't too long winded. Just wanted to help.

    Trent aka "Mr Hybrid"

  7. #7

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    Thanks for all the explinations. I just learned a lot. [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif[/img]

    How long are pitchers on the N. x 'Coccinea' usually expected to live?
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    IDing is something I do just to improve on my mistakes, but that peristome looks really coccinea(ish)? The striping of the peristome seems pretty distinctive in my limited experience. All the other characteristics I used to look at could lead me to several plants. Throw in the peristome, and I get coccinea.

    I'm so glad that we have the whole N. coccinea -- Morganiana, etc., history outlined in several threads. That's worth reading given how often it seems to come up. Here, I used "coccinea" as shorthand.

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