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Hi,

summer has passed and light levels are decreasing by every day here in northern hemisphere. My N. ephippiata got full sun for about 7 hours every day during summer. Although nearly all leafes which can be seen on the picture were grown under these conditions, they were severely burned.

N_ephippiata_1003_C.jpg


Although pitchers look OK:

N_ephippiata_1003_A.jpg


N_ephippiata_1003_B_small.jpg


So in contrast to some believe not all nepenthes are able to adjust to very bright light levels. I.e. N. lavicola, N. macrophylla, N. singalana and some others grow very well under the same light levels.

Cheers Joachim

P.S.: I hope Rob won't kill me, when seeing what I'm doing with his plants... ;)
 
Hi Joachim,

Not very pretty! However, burning does occur in nature too. The pitchers look fine. When the plant is more mature it should produce pitchers with a bit more coloration to them.

I am wondering how come you have a plant from me since I've hardly ever shipped to Europe? Unless via Christian perhaps?
 
I've really torched some leaves on plants trying to adjust the sunlight levels. As long as you catch it, as you obviously have, it should be fine. "That which does not kill you makes you stronger." I'm not sure that is always true, but some leaf burn is not the worst thing in the world if it does not kill the whole leaf. Leaf burn also tells you where to cut the increase in light off. Experimentation is bound to lead to a few ugly, but hopefully not fatal, outcomes.

Notice how the stems of the leaves still function? Neps don't want to die any more than you want them to. Pitchers on burned leaves sometimes get gigantic and look 1000% better than the leaf they are on, IMO.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Borneo @ Oct. 27 2003,5:41)]Hi Joachim,

Not very pretty! However, burning does occur in nature too. The pitchers look fine. When the plant is more mature it should produce pitchers with a bit more coloration to them.

I am wondering how come you have a plant from me since I've hardly ever shipped to Europe? Unless via Christian perhaps?
Hi Rob,

well I've seen many pictures of plants in habit so I wasn't afraid of loosing it
smile.gif
The close relative N. lowii quite easily copes with these light levels but grows very slow for your standards.

The picture was taken while swapping positions with a very nice N. argentii which initially was in a darker position. Many thanks for this one!!! Judging from pictures in habit of N argentii I expect it to grow well in full sun (through the winowsill).

From time to time one of my plants outgrows my terrarium and I have to give them away. Growers with Nepenthes greenhouses interested in big plants are few here and so some of my rarer plants ended in Christian's greenhouse. The N. faizaliana/fusca I already showed in another thread and this N. ephippiata were part of one of these trades. Ah and also the N. fusca grows and pitchers quite well in full sun. Leafes haven't reduced in size and are about as stiff as those it originally had, when I got it.
smile.gif


Cheers Joachim
 
Some of my neps have been so severly burned that the leaves look almost like brown paper. They quickly recovered, though.
 
Joachim,

Torched by the sun? That guy looks great! I've had some where the leaves turn light tan! The green is completely gone. Has happened on rare occasions adapting an indoor Nep to outdoor conditions without some sun protection. They always bounce back and adjust. No worries. If Rob only knew what I was doing with HIS plants outdoors that I've bought from Tony and Dean. Yikes!

Take care,
Joel
 
Joel,

What, you're abusing my babies?! I'll have them back please!
biggrin.gif


Seriously, how are they adapting to the great outdoors?
 
Hey Rob,
I've found that your plants are among the best to adapt to any condition! I think the key is that the plants have been somewhat hardened off in a greenhouse environment. I've taken some of Wistuba's stuff, less than a 1/2 inch across, like N. dubia, and potted it up in moss and outdoors it went. It's been 2 weeks at least with no problems. Even during our "So. Calif." dry, 20% humidity firestorm weather. The neps can take full sun provided the temps don't get above 80ish or so for days at a time. Some of my hanging neps get full sun regardless of the weather. Those are bigger adapted Neps to outdoor conditions. I usually drop the shadecloth over my smaller Neps when the sun is strong and temps get over 80 F. Other than that I roll up the shade cloth so they can benefit from the sun. I water about every other day to keep the long fiber sphagnum moist. To be honest, it's really no problem. The plants love the outdoors and can adapt quite nicely. The Neps with the papery leaves like N. mirabilis echinostoma and N. hirsuta are more challenging. They don't have the "waxy" leaf coat to protect them as much as other Neps. But I'm growin one indoors and one outdoors with success. I think you'll see more hobbyists growing these plants outside of terrariums etc. over time.

Keep producing great plants so I can abuse outdoors! I'm waiting for N. talangensis and dubia too!

Take care and good growin'
Joel
 
Thanks for the feedback Joel, our plants are nursery grown for at least 1 year, and most for several years. However, I do agree with what you say about the species without the waxy cuticle. Generally though, Neps seem to be far more adaptable than many people (including me) thought. I really ought to rewrite the cultivation section on our website soon.

I see there's another thread about growing outdoors so I'm off to take a look at that. Hope the fires aren't too close to you!

Rob
 
  • #10
Hi Joel,

Yesterday, I came across a piece of cleared land, opposite a condominium, about the size of two football fields. In this piece of land are tall grass and many, many, many plants of N. mirablis. The plants are very healthy with very thick stem.

The point is N. mirablis can take on full sun.

Choong
 
  • #11
After seeing these pictures, i think i am broiling my baby tentaculata. three out of the 5 leaves are purple. I did realize that they were burning, but i never thought it could be fatal, could it??. Most of my neps received just enough light to grow healthy. Now i am experimenting by placing them under 2 X 36 watt bulbs. I never thought these bulbs could be so strong.

If you look at the thread N. burbidgeae, people have  a  complete different opinion about strong light levels there.

Swords: what is your opinion??

Gus
 
  • #12
Personally I like to give my plants as much light as they will tolerate and still grow healthy.  That way I know I am maximizing the plant's ability to process nutrients and give me big colorful pitchers on stocky disease and insect resistant plants.  

There are some catchs though!

Not all species and hybrids will adjust equally well to certain light levels.  Cultural conditions will play a HUGE roll in a plants ability to handle various light levels!  Air circulation, temperature, humidity levels, plant nutrition, light source etc. can make or break a plant's ability to handle a certain light intensity.  For this reason I don't think you can compare one grower to the next easily.  Many Nepenthes will produce anthocyanin in the leaves.  I think this is the best indicator that the plant is receiving good light to grow properly.  Each grower must experiment with their own plants to really get a feel for and understand what is too little, too much or just the right amount of light.

To answer your question Gus about fatal burning.  I don't think it would be fatal unless it was a case where a tender plant used to dense shade was subjected to full blazing sun and the entire growth point was fried crispy.  Even then it would most likely sprout new shoots lower down the stem.  Is it possible to overexpose to where you have gone over the edge and are now hurting the plant in the long term??  Absolutely

Tony
 
  • #13
What are 36 watt bulbs? Are these 4 ft flourescents or screw in type power compacts? Either way, this little bit of light could not possily hurt your plant. None of my plants grow under anything less than 250 watts and they are all happy and pitchering nicely.

I do not think it is possible to do longterm damage to terrarium and indoor grown plants under artificial light if you have adequate humidity. The COLOR of leaves doesn't matter as much as the FEEL. A red or purplish leaf that is still succulent (thick and fleshy) is generally fine and is simply reacting to brighter/adequate light. New leaves the plant produces will not be the same reddish color and within a few months the plant will likely be growing plain old green leaves or only have a hint of red.

If the leaves are red and then begin to turn brown and crispy in the center of the red spots then that is actual burning and you have too low humidity. Simply figure out a way to increase the humidity. Teh plants will stop burning and begin to pitcher when conditions are appropriate.

Like Tony, I try to subject my plants to the brightest light I can by covering the entire top of all my growing chambers with artificial light for intense, even lighting. Tony grows in a greenhouse using natural sunlight, so the methods are different. In my experience if the leaves of a new plant turn red or purple I know that I have it in a well lit position. If they do not color up with a few weeks of arrival I will move them to a spot where they do. I looked at my N. burbideae after that post on purple leaves, mine was too on the old growth. I hadn't paid that much attention as all my plants do the color change. The new leaves are simply bright green with only a touch of red.
 
  • #14
Thank you gentlemen. If 2 X 36 W. bulbs is not much when compared to your 250 W, then my tentaculata is just having a good time!!

The way some of the other cp colleagues expressed regarding N. eppiphiata burning its leaves, well, it gave me the impression that there was something negative about it. But i think we needed to find a concensus about the purple colouring of the leaves, and i think we've found one. Thanks again


gus
 
  • #15
I don't think Joachim's N. ephippiata looks bad at all, the only spot which might give me some concern is on the leaf in the lower right corner of the pot which has some brown but it still looks fleshy. Also, I can't tell how old that leaf may be, it may be naturally dying off as my ephippiatas old leaves did die off from the edges in such a manner. I don't know how the leaves formed in my conditions will go as none of them have died off yet.
 
  • #16
[b said:
Quote[/b] (swords @ Nov. 05 2003,7:22)]I don't think Joachim's N. ephippiata looks bad at all, the only spot which might give me some concern is on the leaf in the lower right corner of the pot which has some brown but it still looks fleshy. Also, I can't tell how old that leaf may be...
Hi,

the black spot on this leaf is dead and dried up. It is the second youngest leaf, only the one to the left is newer. The red blotches on the other leafes also don't look good, all leafes were grown under these light levels. From my experience slight light burn results in a more uniform red colour of the leafes.

I'm still quite confident that the light levels were too high for this N. ephippiata.

Cheers Joachim
 
  • #17
I also was under the impression that as long as the temps and humidity were right, you could not have too much light in an artificial setting. Oh well, live and learn.

Regards,

Joe
 
  • #18
Joe,
Joachim is not growing in totally artificial light, only supplemental artificial light (after dark). Mainly he is using his "bay window" terrarium (if it's the same one on his website) the autumn sun will fry just about anything and everything by being lower in the sky and still warm, along with the air getting drier with the onset of winter. All my aroids, aristolochia and sarracenia outside were burned crispy this fall even in "full shade" with plenty of watering. Fluorescent lighting is incomparable to true sunlight. Radiant heat from sunlight can cause severe burning if the humidity drops at all. There is more leeway with normal fluorescents as the light will take far longer to evaporate the water in the growing area.

The light from normal fluorescents and compact fluorescents do not emit much heat even when there is a lot of them used in one space.However, if you place your hand in a direct beam of sunlight (or even metal halide lighting) you can feel that the actual light is warm/hot (that's why cats like to lay in a sunny window). Humidity is crucial in such a brightly lit environment, fluctuation during the brightest light hours will allow burning to occur.

On my large intermediate/lowlander chamber if the humidistat or humidifier burns out the plants will fry because that chamber is lit by metal halides who create a mild radiant heat (not as intense as true sunlight though). I set it up last winter and before I got the humidistat set up correctly I had burned a few leaves that being my first experience with using metal halides. Now all is well.

If you will recall a post a while back where Rob explained his and another fellows "flowering Nep houses" on which they use almost no shade cloth to allow huge ebbs and flow of sunlight and I am assuming this causes a decrease in humidity during the highest light hours. Rob made a statement something similar to: ..the plants do not look pretty, burned and some with no pitchers but they were all aparently healthy and flowering.

But those are larger plants, not seedlings like Joachims which may or may not be more fragile to intense light. I would imagine it would only be Aug, Sept and maybe Oct when the light levels would be highest for Joachim, if he could sheild the smallest plants with a sheer white curtain it would be enough to diffuse the setting autumn sun.
 
  • #19
Hi,

about half a year my N. ephippiata is growing under lower light levels - shaded by my N. villosa (I just love this comment...
smile.gif
). As Rob wrote, pitchers colour up a bit more when being more mature and also the first britles can be seen below the pitcher lid. The burned blotches have totally disappeared, but the plant is growing at a very slow rate by now. It produces one leaf every two months.

N_ephippiata_290304_B.jpg


N_ephippiata_290304_A.jpg


Cheers Joachim
 
  • #20
Hey Joachim,
Very nice! Now long does it take for them to color up like that? I have an open pitcher on mine (for about 1 month or so, I'd guess), and the petrisome is stiped, but the pitcher body isn't getting that red hue.
 
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