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Thread: A nagging question in the back of my head

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    swords's Avatar
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    While visiting my friends shop the other day he was talking about CITES paper work and proof of his plants origins and full documentation of his propagating the plants in his own nursery and TC lab.

    After getting home and chilling out a while I got to wondering. Do persons such as I (and the traders on this board) need this paper trail when mailing App. 1 and App 2 species within US borders even though they are artificially propagated? N. rajah and N. khasiana are both App. 1 Nep species and the rest are App. 2.

    I wonder even more after hearing the rumors of the AOS having people arrested for presenting Slipper orchid species plants for judging at shows without a corraborating paper trail and accompanying paperwork for their plants.

    ...just paranoid and looking for someone to dump gas on my fire! [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html312/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif[/img]

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    i was quite worried about that too because in the book "A guide to carnivorous plants of singapore", i read that it is illegal to import or export Cps to or from singapore. Ill try to find the book and quote it.
    now im not so worried about it because i found out that almost every cper ships Cps around.
    A lady went into a grocery store and looked into the turket section. She needed a bigger one for her family, so she asks the stock boy: \"Do these turkeys get any bigger?\"

    The stock boy replied: \"No ma'am, they're dead\"

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    Nepenthes Specialist nepenthes gracilis's Avatar
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    I'd only be worried about overseas shipping. Shipping within the US of Nepenthes is not a concern, only with our NATIVE CP's, S. oreophila for example. But if and when the CITES people barge in my greenhouse and claim my plants are illegal, then I'll worry about it!

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    When I mailed a N.Ventricosa to the U.S. earlier this year, I had a CITES document completed eventhough it's not listed on CITES. It was free and only took 5 mins... but then I had to make the trip to the inspection office anyway for a phyto doc. My 2 cents.
    DOH!

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    swords's Avatar
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    Charles,

    Was there any question from the Wildlife Dept as to the validity of the parent plant being artificially propagated? That's what I'm most concerned about since some of my plants are no longer TC plantlet sized "babies" how can I prove these larger plants have not been poached and smuggled to me? I have no documents proving that my plants are from TC or other artificial propagation means. I have invoice receipts for them from the US distributors but no government paperwork stating thier exemption from CITES due to being TC or Art Prop.

    Is it enough to have a list of where the plants are from stating that the plant originated from Borneo Exotics as a TC clone or is it necessary to have proof of it being a TC clone to be allowed to legally cultivate and propagate it?

    All species of Nepentheaceae plants are included on CITES Appendix 2 except for N. rajah and N. khasiana which are on Appendix 1. At least, that's what my general import permit paperwork says.

    How about you Nursery fellows, Tony or Rob what can you tell us?

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    Tony Paroubek's Avatar
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    CITES are for international trade only so you don't need them for shipping within a country. The importer must however keep all documents for proof of proper importation. It is not necessary to include them along with the plants when sold/traded within the destination country. People purchasing listed plants should keep the receipts of where they purchased them. If US officials had any questions there would be documentation they came from someone else then.
    The problem with the Paphs. and AOS is that there are a number of Paphs. (and Phrags) which have been discovered AFTER CITES was implimented. So the situation arrises how these plants got into culture when they should not be (yet). There can be only one explanation when a recently discovered plant protected by CITES shows up in a show or on a judging table fully mature and in flower.

    BTW artificially propagated N. rajah and N. khasiana are classed as appendix 2, not app. 1. In this instance it is the overseas grower required to prove to the CITES people they are artificially propagated in order to get this classification. Tony
    Is that a Nepenthes in your pocket or you just happy to see me?

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    swords's Avatar
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    Thanks Tony!
    That clears up much of what I've been worrying about. I still have questions about the availability of certain species of Nepenthes and Orchids then, since CITES was developed some 20-30 years ago and these "new" plants are widely available. Is there some kind of "special dispensation" given by member countries for botanists or nurseries to do legal TC of new orchid and nep species?

    I know, I'm likely asking some "dangerous" questions here which probably should be asked privately but I think it may be important for all growers to know one way or another.

    One more:
    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]]...artificially propagated N. rajah and N. khasiana are classed as appendix 2, not app. 1. In this instance it is the overseas grower required to prove to the CITES people they are artificially propagated in order to get this classification.[/

    Does this mean I (the "overseas grower") may need documentation for my N. rajah or do you mean solely the place where they are being TC'd and subsequently exported?

    Sorry to be so buggy-just wanna know where I stand! I don't know what I'd do if the feds busted in and confiscated all my plants...

    My last words would probably be "you'll pry it from my cold dead hands!" [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html312/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif[/img]

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    Npe grac,If the cites people barge into your green house and start tacking\destroying things you have the legal rights in most states to open fire!

    Though I wouldnt kill them....just put them into a lot of pain![img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html312/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif[/img]

    They aren`t touching my plants!
    [img]http://home.**********.com/users/pondboy/Neps/Neps%20sig..JPG[/img]

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