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nepenthes grafting

Hi everybody,

Just curious to know if somebody has already experienced grafting nepenthes. Gordon Cheers, on page 42 of his book, mentions the topic, but it remains quite theoretical to me...

Thanks already,

Greetings from Switzerland,

Olivier
 
I would too, have to see it to belive it. Peronsally the results of grafting seem quite probable to me personally. As long as you have healthy tissue and a reliable attachment site I think you could graft a slower growing rarer plant like N. villosa onto a more easier to grow plant like N. hamata for an example. I'm by no means an expert at this but merely adding a bit of input from what I do know about grafting.

Cheers!
Dustin
 
I think Cliff Dodd has successfully done this.

Regards,

Joe
 
Hmm, what little I've read on grafting is from Bonsai and that is so that strange cultivars of Acer palmatum can be more easily circulated since they aparently don't root very well.

When you do a cutting (of any plant) the cutting retains the genetic information from the parent plant which includes pitcher shape, pitcher color and plant growth rate. A cutting is the original "clone". I don't think that moving a slow plant and affixing it into the vine of a faster growing plant would do anything for the growth speed but I may well be wrong having never done it myself. It may be possible that the tissues will intermingle and the nutrient uptake may be different on a larger root system, but I don't know if it would actually effect the metabolism of the grafted plant so that it made leaves and pitchers faster since that is genetically controlled.

It would be nice to have someone whos done it stop in and show some photos and measurements of such a slow on fast experiment!
 
i was thinking about this a few weeks ago. maybe someone can make a nepenthes bush, filled with many grafted plants of different species. that would be a sight to see! it would need quite a large root system thought. Zongyi
 
Many years ago I have succesfull grafted some Nepenthes .
I tried to graft N .species (nothing special) onto rooted hybrids .
The thought was ,to keep cuttings  of difficult rooting species alive.
The technic is nothing special for me ,because I am nursery man and grafting trees and roses is a part of my work.
If anybody wants to trie it,here are some things which should be known:

There are two ways for grafting plants .
1.You graft onto a rooted plant(can be a hybrid)and want to keep this alive ,so that the 2 plants stay together for the rest of their life.
This is the normal way (Fruit trees and roses are grafted this way)
2.You graft onto a rooted plant and do not want that the rooted one stays alive .This kind of grafting is used, if you want to root something, what is very hard to root and to keep the upper part alive, till it can produce own roots (sometimes this needs 1 or 2 years .Chinese tree paeonies are grafted this way.)
After the the plant has established the (helping )root dies off.

Dustin says :Would be gould to graft N. villosa onto N. hamata.
I do not really think that he wants to cut his(really nice ) N. hamata back and wants to trie it (and where do you want to get a cutting of N.villosa,You can ask Jeff for one (;-)).And there is also an other thing what makes it technically impossible.Both parts have to be nearly similar in diameter and I would think a rosetted plant can not be used .

Grafted plants do never mix anything together ,it is only a way to proagate a plant.Althought grafted plants in most cases have other characteristics than seed grown ones ,but only in the fastness of growing and compatiliby of different soil conditions,and sometimes in color.  

Something to the way to graft :
1.Only graft in spring when groth comes back to the plant .(not in middle of winter)
2.Choose a plant to graft on ,N.ventricosa should be very good.
3.Take a cutting of good groth .
4.Take a very sharp knife ,and cut both crossways (3 -4 cm long cut).
5.Place both onto each other,very carfully.
7.Fix them with a rubber band.Work clean, no dirt should get into the wound.
8.Close the wound with wax or something similar
9.Wait 4-6 weeks to see if it had worked .
10. Good Luck.

I will try this again in spring with one or two plants,we will see.

Zongyi:principially it is possible to graft more the one species on one plant, but I think in case of nepenthes it will not really work (but nice idea to think about)

I do not have any pics of my grafted plants ,please excuse.(Too long ago)

Christian
 
Ha ha Christian!
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Well, I WAS thinking of cutting it back, but since 2 dormant nodes waay down near the original plant tissue (when I bought it) have activated naturally so I'm letting the main vine go on the N. hamata now.

As for the grafting o the villosa onto the N. hamata, it was a mere suggestion for if it could be accomplished, perhaps N. villosa could be grown to maturity this way much quicker. On the other hand, the temperamental factors of the plants might stil be retained and you would have gained nothing besides a neat grafted Nepenthes of 2 rare and beautiful species.
 
You forgot to mention to not touch the tissue as the oils on your hands will prevent miosis(sp) of the cambium layers,also you should place a plastic bag over the scion to help increase humidity wich appears vital to new grafts of houseplants,also the scion must be LESS then 10% of the size of the stock AND you can graft a smaller plant onto a larger plant as long as the cambial tissue matches in at least one side:) cambial contact is requiered for a successful graft.
 
Pondboy, do you mean Meiosis, the replication of gametes (sex cells) through 2 cell divisions, or Osmosis the diffusion of water, or Mitosis the reproduction of body cells through 1 cell division.  
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  • #11
So you want reproductive cells to grow into the graft? Wouldn't you rather want Mitosis? (reproduction of body cells)
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  • #12
[b said:
Quote[/b] (nepenthes gracilis @ Feb. 07 2004,16:36)]So you want reproductive cells to grow into the graft? Wouldn't you rather want Mitosis? (reproduction of body cells)  
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Pondboy is confused, lol. It's Mitosis ;) and I don't know about skin oil causing problems, but the bacteria on your skin sertainly will... This is a good idea.... Wax should also hold in moisture.


...If you put a weak plant on a plant with extreamly robust roots, you will get an extreamly robust vertion of the week plant. A lot of times, the root system is the deciding factor in how fast and large a plant grows. The better the roots, the more effective the food storage, useage and water flow. While your graft would not be genetically changed, it will have a very importent part of it with better genes and that is what really counts. Most plants have a very high capasity for growth and are only limited by their ablitiy to obtain reasorces. Need examples? Have an apple lately? Most cultivars of apples have horrid root structues. Literally, they make these pathedic little fruits and die without emaculate care. But that is not what you see at the store
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At the store you see the fruit from an apple that was grafted onto the root stock of one of the origenal domesticated apples... or at least the oldest we have. See, imbreeding makes the root systems of apple week, so we needed a way to selectively breed for both hardyness, and fast growth while also getting the fruit flavor, texture and skin that we wanted. The solution was to breed for fruit by taking apple seedlings from a favoret tree and grafting them back into a root system from one of the old virieties like Transparent Apples. Then you could see the fruit at it's best and keep breeding and a grafting. The apples we grow for todays market are ALL grafted. These plants hold the genes for awsome fruit, but horrid root systems. It's an easy solution to a complex problem
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How do I know this? I live on a farm, and my dad wants to get fruit trees so that is where the details came from, but I orgenally learned about this from a tree already on our property. The origenal owners said they had been ripped off, this stupid tree wasn't what they had planted, the tree had never been carefor it's entire life, that was ovious, so I had to wonder what was up. A little research later and I found out that it was a Transparent Apple tree, the first green apple known to man. I also found out that just about the only way you will ever get to see one is if you have a tree thats graft failed because that is what nearly all cultivars are grafted on to because while the Transparent apple has soft skinned fruit, it produces apples for the entire growing season and in huge volumes because it's root system is unbeatable....

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so um yah, my point is putting a slow growing species on a fast growing one will probubly have very nice results
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  • #13
Uhhhh Darcie...

While it is true that sometimes grafting is done because the root stock is stronger and more resistant this is only one reason and usually not the main reason. Apples have fine root systems and inbreeding has not caused weak plants. I have plenty of full sized apples of many different cultivars growing on their own roots. But who wants to try and pick apples 40' off the ground? They are grafted for size control of the tree. Cytokinin produced in the roots determines internodal length in the shoots. The root stock used to produce semi-dwarf and dwarf trees produces less cytokinin than standard roots so the trees stay smaller and more compact. This makes the trees easier and faster to care for and harvest. It means you can pack more plants into the same growing space, more trees = more fruit per acre. It means the fruit is closer together so more dense fruit production = more fruit per acre.

It is also worth mentioning that even grafted trees make pathetic little fruits if the trees are not cared for and sprayed liberally for most of the growing season with various insecticides and fungicides, or some sort of comparable organic gardening/IPM system.

Tony
 
  • #14
yah, size controle is a big part of it too, you can get mini-trees that way. . . with normalish fruit. I've seen real bitty fruit trees. All of our fruit tree books and the websites you buy them from say they are all grafted early on, they really have to be. Apple Cultivars are all clones of each other. You have to graft them to get new plants started in any amount of time, either you set it up so that the new plant kills the old and takes over with it's own roots or you do the more logical thing and sick them on the roots of the fastest growing hardiest breed you can grow. Of course, you can still have good apples without a graft, we had a bird donated apple tree that did well, but you definetly can't get as hardy of a plant without the graft unless it's a hardy varient to begin with which are usually lower quality. Maybe in the south you can get away with more then in the North. But then again, my state is a major apple producer so oviously the south isn't perfict for them or we would be outdone up here. An apple tree at 40', Unless we are talking one seriously shelterd area, no way they could reach that hieght without falling appart. As it is with the "Smaller" trees if you don't prune them just right all the time they overgrow and start to collaps at about 20' That is what ours is busy doing right now. It's not a thret to anything and it's a little late to start pruning it, so having parts break off and the thing branch out all over like a giant bush isn't that big of a problem for us. After an apple tree gets past a certain age it also starts to get too big regardless of pruning and fruit production goes down so orcherds have to rip them all out of the ground and start a new rotation. Maybe they can reach those sizes in a shelterd area if they live long enough, but I can garentee that size controle is not the #1 reason for grafting apples. They are grafted so they can handle colder climates
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that I know for a fact unless the orcherds around here all lie.

...Incidently, let us assume breeding has caused 40' plants, that still counts as weaker as far as apples go, what with the falling appart thing.

I hope this didn't come off as harsh. I am having trouble coming up with a way to state my argument without souding evil >_< um, can you just take my word that I'm not trying to sound bad, just stateing what I know.
 
  • #15
I don't take what your saying as bad but also realize I have extensive training in horticulture as well. Most fruit tree catalogs will list standard apples reaching a hight of 25 feet or so. This is with regular pruning. The normal dimensions for a mature standard size unpruned apple tree is 40' wide and 40' tall. True in harsher climates the trees may be smaller due to natural pruning.. or as you put it breaking limbs but this is not always the case.

Fruit/nut tree standard size chart
Reasons for grafting ... from my alma mater
Apple rooststock characteristics

Note the column for Hardiness. Seedling is the most hardy and is well rooted and highly adaptable to varied soil conditions. Seedlings rootstock is just that. Rootstock produced via seed. The select cultivar is grafted to the seedling rootstock to quickly produce larger numbers of the selected variety that would be possible from directly rooting cuttings.

The number one reason to graft apples is size control and increase the speed to bearing age for the tree.
Tony
 
  • #16
o_O wha? I don't get it, it sounds like you just supported what I said and argued against your earlier remarks, but then you go and say the roots are for size controle again? My point is that in orcherd of apples it isn't for size controle (just like you said at the top of your post where you were saying with 40' normal for adult unpruned plants) but for production of cultivars in high numbers and cold tolerant versions of southern cultivars.

>_< nother one of those debates where we agrea, but sound funny to each other and get gummed up.
 
  • #17
No I did not argue against my earlier statements. I supported the fact that a standard unpruned apple tree can grow to 40' and this is the basis for determining how large a grafted dwarfed tree will grow. If a rootstock will reduce the size of a tree by 50% then it has the capability to reach 20' unpruned and mature. In practice the trees will be shorter yes because they are pruned. But when I made my statement about an apple tree reaching 40' I was not talking about a tree actively pruned on an orchard. (link 1)

Reasons for grafting (link2) shows you the primary reasons for grafting. Cold tolerance is not one of them in apples. Apples are hardier growing on their own roots not on a graft (link 3) shows that most of the dwarfing type root stocks are less cold hardy than standard roots. The graft union is also more susceptible to cold damage than a nongrafted trunk.

Yes grafting has the added benefit of being able to produce large numbers of a single cultivar quicker than other methods but this is not the primary reason for it's use. Size control is. The benefits to reduced tree size are many and have profound effect on an orchard operation. EVerything from increased harvest size per acre, shortening time to first harvest after planting, reduced labor costs on tree care, increased harvesting speed and reduced cost in harvesting, reduced equipment costs, reduced chemical use etc etc.
Tony
 
  • #18
okay. I see your point... We don't have dworf trees at the orchards I've been to. But maybe the high production ones are
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