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Thread: Need an explenation

  1. #1
    Flip_Side_the_Pint's Avatar
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    Hey guys/gals whats up?

    Well I have come to own five neps now. Only three of them have pitchers and they were already on there when I bought the plants.

    Ok my question is how do I know that the plant is going to grow pitchers? All the new leaves the plants are shooting up have nice long tendrils but the tips of the tendrils are a golden brown color. Are they supposed to be that color? Or are they supposed to be green like the rest of the plant. I know that the plants won't grow pitchers if they haven't enough humidity. But do plants that aren't going to grow picthers still have the tendrils?

    Also when the plant is producing a new leave/picther in oder for the picther to fully develope does the leaf first have to be fully opened and developed then after that the picther starts to grow?

    I know I've been asking alot of question lately but I'm just trying to learn as much as possible to try and provide the best environment I can for these wacky plants [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html312/non-cgi/emoticons/cool.gif[/img]
    https://www.instagram.com/hull.jess/ (I post pics of my plants there)

  2. #2
    swords's Avatar
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    Hi there, no problem askin' questions, otherwise you'll never learn! [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html312/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif[/img]

    Your Neps not only need to have high humidity and good clean water (reverse osmosis, rainwater, etc) but they also need bright lighting and (depending upon species/hybrid) proper temperatures as well.

    Please see my articles: Nepenthes Cultivation Tips and Nepenthes FAQs for further reading on all that.

    Now, as to the stages of pitcher development...
    1) The leaf must unroll from it's center fully.

    2) If conditions are right, the tendril will start to grow downwards. Depending upon species and age of plant the tendrils can be very long, those on my large N. rajah are over 30 cm long!

    3) Once the tendril reaches it's full length the tip will turn upwards. I call this stage the "pitcher hook" as it looks a bit like a fishing hook.

    4) The pitcher will slowly inflate in size and suddenly one night it will suddenly grow larger and then a few days later it's sealed lid will crack and over the next week or two the lid will raise up and the persitome (lip of the pitcher) will curl out of the mouth and the pitcher will be just a tad larger than when it first opened.

    Hopefully that made sense![img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html312/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif[/img]

  3. #3
    Flip_Side_the_Pint's Avatar
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    well I'll give you some stats on my terraium.

    Its an 18 gallon acrylic cube tank. For lighting I have four 9 watt power compacts 6.5K, and two normal output plant lights (not sure the kelvin rating). Also have a tropic aire humidifier and an ultrasonic fogger is in the mail. For watering I have have a 6 stage RO/DI unit that I use to make the water.

    The average temp is about 75 - 83. The terrarium is sealed but gets fresh air from the TA thats on 24/7.

    Hmm I'll try and get some pictures of the set up so you guy/gals can suggest things that I need to do/don't do. Also so I can get some id's on the plants, lol, I hate not knowing what they are. [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html312/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif[/img]


    thanks for the help
    -Jess
    https://www.instagram.com/hull.jess/ (I post pics of my plants there)

  4. #4
    swords's Avatar
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    Sounds like the immediate problem is the dim lighting. My Neps can see a vast difference between my 29 gallon "seedling/cutting" terrarium which has 120W of light compared to my 75 gallon young lowland Nepenthes plant terrarium which has 240 w of light. The adult lowland/intermediate terrarium is 400W of metal halide and the highland chamber is 300W of compact flourescents (which will be increased to 400W of Metal halide upon expansion of the chamber). Growth is larger/sturdier and pitchers form easier in the higher light tanks,

    Incidentally, I don't bother with those "plant bulbs/tubes" because they are actually very dim in lumen output in comparison to even the cheapest normal household flourescent tubes. I use the cheap "Residential" flourescent tubes which are in a yellow pack for like $2.99 a pair. I used to buy the expensive GE Chroma 50 "Sunshine" bulbs but switched one time and everything is still growing two replacement sets of bulbs later (16-24 months) and new plants are happy after they settle in so I figure to use that left over money to get myself another plant!

    I hope you weren't planning to use the ultrasonic humidifier on such a tiny terrarium. It will be "overkill" if you do not have it hooked up to a humidistat (humidifier controller). The plants will be saturated far too easily and this can lead to rot and/or fungus infection and deformed new growth if the plants are constantly wet.

    For such a small terrarium I suggest cutting some plastic PVC piping to the length of your terrarium and place it on the bottom. Ontop of this put some Flourescent lighting grid (from home depot or other hardware store) and then you can set your plants on this grid. Pour about 1" of water into the terrarium. The evaporation/condensation throughout the day and night from the lake of water beneath your plants will provide the necessary high humidity without the plants pots sitting in water and rotting the roots or the leaves getting too wet.

  5. #5
    Tony Paroubek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (swords @ Feb. 10 2004,20:00)]I don't bother with those "plant bulbs/tubes" because they are actually very dim in lumen output in comparison to even the cheapest normal household flourescent tubes.
    While I understand the logic in this thinking. One bulb looks brighter to us than another.. Or has better lumen values than another...It is technically incorrect. You can have a very bright lightbulb that has little usable light for plant growth and a very dim lightbulb that is nearly all usable light for the plant. The problem is our perception of what is bright is different from a plants. The term for the amount of light that is photosynthetically active is called PAR value. Photosynthetic Active Radiation. Unfortunately you won't find this on most light bulbs and it requires a special meter to measure. Normally it is ok to use the overall kelvin rating and lumen output to estimate the 'worth' to plant growth but it is only an estimate. The only way to know for sure is comparing PAR value or spectral graphs.

    Tony
    Is that a Nepenthes in your pocket or you just happy to see me?

  6. #6
    Flip_Side_the_Pint's Avatar
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    I have a 150 watt DE MH thats not in use I can add that to the tank. Its a 10K bulb is that ok? or would something lower like 6.5K be better?

    Do you think the 150 watt DE MH along with what is already on there will be ok? the main reason I didn't use it to start off with was the heat issue But I can go buy some CPU fans, thats not to big a problem. Its good to know I finally have a use for this fixture now.

    As for the ultrasonic I was only planning on using it periodically not on all the time perhaps on a timer that would go on once a day for a short period of time. But if its not needed I can use it later when the plants need a larger tank. Can you link me to a place the sells/has info a humidistat? That sounds very interesting.

    Its good to know about the "plant bulbs" not being that great thats a great tip. [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html312/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif[/img]


    sigh, now I feel guilty asking all these questions and providing my plants with poor lighting.... [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html312/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif[/img] [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html312/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif[/img]


    -Jess
    https://www.instagram.com/hull.jess/ (I post pics of my plants there)

  7. #7
    Flip_Side_the_Pint's Avatar
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    so I shouldn't ditch my plant bulbs? sigh which is it?[img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html312/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif[/img]
    https://www.instagram.com/hull.jess/ (I post pics of my plants there)

  8. #8
    swords's Avatar
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    Well, my original intention was, it is the quantity of light over exact quality of light which is most important in the long run as far as I'm concerned. In my experience with vegetative growth it does not appear to make a noticeable difference between my tank having 240 watts of GE Chroma 50s (about $40 worth of bulbs) and 240 watts of standard white light "residential" tubes (about $8-10 worth of tubes) sitting ontop. Like I said, the Chroma 50s are pretty much "ideal" tubes but if the cheaper ones work the same, not go the cheaper route?

    For flowering perhaps it would be important to add a change to the spectral quanities of lighting? I couldn't say as my plants are too small to flower due to age or my continuous pruning.

    150 W MH is a good amount of light but it may be too much for such a small area (too intense). I would try the bulb a couple feet above the tank and monitor the humidity and temps and slowly lower it closer to the lid but stop lowering the light if/when the temps get to apx. 85-90*F during the day just to avoid overheating and dehydration.

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