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N. ampullaira: is a natural setting possible?

So I've read nearly every thread in this forum regarding amps, and I still can't find the answer to my questions, or whether or not my idea is at all possible.  I would really like to keep this plant, but to do so in a somewhat naturalistic representation of its natural habitat in something like a 10 gal or 20 gal tank.  I would like to dedicate the setup to just allow the plant to take over as it pleases among the moss, leaves, etc.

My original thought was to just create a fairly deep substrate with LFS, etc. to allow the water to stay at the bottom...but that seems to be a bad idea as it tends to rot as anaerobic areas build up.  Also, it seems the best root health in amps happens when they are not constantly sitting in moisture.  This being the case, do you think a false-bottom setup would be a better option, allowing water to drain out of the mix, and allow me to still siphon out old water from the bottom?  Perhaps just a few inches of gravel (this would be more visually appealing)?

I would really prefer to keep one of these in more of a viv type setting, rather than in a pot set on an upside down yogurt container.  Any ideas and feedback would be greatly appreciated!
 
I think a gravel and/or charcoal bottom would be fine. My amp is pretty wet all the time, as it's on a daily timer for watering, and it's doing great. And as long as you can siphon water out, I think you should be safe, and I think N. ampularia is an excellent choice for this.

Capslock
 
I can't really comment much on the terrarium construction/design since I don't grow plants that way.. Generally speaking there are lots more problems with trying to grow plants planted right into a terrarium. You might be better off keeping the plant potted and burying it or covering it up with something instead. I will add that a 10 or 20 gallon tank is way too small for a N. ampullaria that is anything larger than a young seedling/cutting.

Tony
 
Thanks capslock, maybe a bottom couple inches of a gravel/charcoal mix, with a small slotted tube in the corner to allow siphoning?  I'd like to stay away from the whole eggcrate layer, etc. as I just don't like the look of it.  Here's the inspiration of my idea (scroll down to see trio of smaller pics): http://nepenthes.merbach.net/english/_ampullaria.html  I would just love to see tons of little pots poking up through the loam, dead fern braches, etc.  

Tony, are you saying to put the pot into the substrate, giving the appearance that it's planted in the "ground?"  I've got an 80 gal tank sitting empty down in the basement that I could use...
 
I would definately agree with Tony on the size issue. I have an amp that's roughly 2 years old, and it wouldn't fit in a 10 gallon....it would have trouble in a 20 gallon. I've also noticed that the size increases exponentially. 20% growth isn't much with it starts at 3" diameter....but when it's already 15" across, 20% growth is a different story.....

Incidently (sp?), I'm having a tough time getting basal pitchers....anyone know why that might be? I really gotta get a pick of this sucker, because it's growing very strangly....sideways is the only way I can describe it.
 
schloaty,

Mine did the same thing (grew sideways), and finally, I'm starting to get basal pitchers. Just little guys, but honest-to-goodness basal pitcher. It happens, from what I've read, when the growing tip goes below the soil line, which is about when mine started to produce them.

Skylsdale: use the 80-gallon for sure!

Capslock
 
The only problem I would have for the 80 gal would be lighting. They prefer shade in the wild (based on the literature I've come across) but those with experience keeping them suggest brighter light for better growth. Would two 4' shoplights (120w) be sufficient?

Any other suggestions on how to go about this? Things to avoid? Possible pitfalls to keep in mind? The footprint of the tank is 48"x18", which I assume would be plenty of space for a while.
 
The 80gal would do nicely. The issue with that size setup is not only the size but the distance from the lights. Particularly if you let it run around and it spends alot of it's time near the lower part of the tank. You might be better off with several of the screw in compact fluorescent bulbs. The light is more intense which allows them to be placed further away. There is also a fluorescent fixture that is used for outdoor lighting that has great specs. Capslock has one showing in his thread on March photos I think.. Maybe he can give you more info on it.

Yes I was referring to burying the pot into the substrate or hiding it behind some props. If it remains in a pot you can use a different mix for the pot than for the rest of the stuff in the tank. It would also make removing the plant much easier and less stressful on the plant if the need arises.
Tony
 
Good points Tony, thanks. I've also got a 30 gal (36x12x17) tank that I could use. It was recently setup for a Thai stream biotope, but I'm not sure if I want to continue on with it at this point...so it may end up empty before long. This is shallower in depth than the 80 gal, which is 24" deep.

I checked Capslock's thread and looked up the LOA FloureX fixtures. Those bulb would work well (seems less restrike with the bulb configuration), but the catch seems to be that LOA claims that the bulb must be used within their respective fixtures, which is around $35 a pop. I'm sure it has to do with ballast type to run the bulbs at their proper wattages.

If I went ahead with your suggestion of keeping the amp potted, but buried it in the substrate, I assume pitchers would break the bounds of the pot and still continue to spread throughout the substrate? What would I need to do if I decided to remove the pot from the tank? I assume terra-cotta would be best in this situation (moisture retention, breathability, etc.)?

Thanks again!
 
  • #10
I like Tony's idea. Sink the pot in soil and put a topsoil on. That would look pretty good. But use a big pot so the basal shoots and offshoots can come up.
 
  • #11
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]But use a big pot so the basal shoots and offshoots can come up.

So do the offshoots spread beneath the surface of the soil...or along the top? I assumed it was along the top and they would just grow over the rim and proceed into the surrounding substrate. Am I wrong?
 
  • #12
No, youre right, they start a "carpet" and when they do it spreads along the top of the soil, my amp is currently making a carpet now, for some time now, ill see if i can take a photo, its really cool!

but when they do start to make a carpet, what i read was that you need to let the main stem keep growing, if you cut the "mother" plant then the plants in the carpet will grow taller

i learned this from Josh, i think he was going to experiment that if you cut the main stem to see if the others will grow or if you can just cut the tip off and itll still grow as a carpet or something like that, hopefully #### chime in =/
 
  • #13
I have been thinking about this a little more and wanted your opinions. Due to space issues, the tank I may end up using would be a 30 gal (36x12x17). Would this last very long if the amp was the only plant in the tank?

If I go with the potted method, would you suggest terra cotta or plastic? I'm assuming terra cotta as it can retain moisture and allows a little more breathing action within the walls of the pot (beneficial for Nepenthes roots?).

My idea is to not really have a substrate in the tank of much depth. I plan on putting some wood on the bottom, maybe a tangle of roots in one corner that creep along the length of the tank. I would set the pot in the corner among the roots, then fill around it and the rest of the tank with some sphagnum and maybe a little substrate on the bottom (1/2" or so). A large majority of the tank would have leaf litter. My hope is that the amp would begin to spread throughout the litter and debris and create plenty of lower pitchers emerging up out of the litter.

How does this sound? Comments? Critiques?
 
  • #14
This would be a beautiful terrarium! I say go for it! N. ampullaria is a very easy growing plant and does indeed spread like you see in the wild nepenthes photos. I have a 6" pot full of about 20 basal rosettes which had a meter long vine which I just cut off a while ago. The sad part is N. ampullarias don't sprout from dormant nodes - so the cutting wound up being a waste!
sad.gif
Anyway it's been about 3 months and the clump of basal rossttes is still staying small and none have started to elongate yet here's a picture of part of the clump:
ampullaria1.jpg


I think the terrarium would be excellent, just make sure you use a lot of light which will not only help with faster growth but also supply the extra heat that N. ampullaria likes. As far as drainage if you set it up to have a way to drain it so it's not constantly watterlogged. I don't think there would be a problem with a bit of extra wetness because it grows in peat swamps and heath forests which are occasionally flooded. Maybe get a couple different color forms (red green and spotted) and let them all carpet together!

Good luck!
 
  • #15
Thanks for the support and info Josh! You've got a beautiful plant in that pic.

I have a few questions for you. Would you suggest keeping it potted as well, or planting it in the substrate? Being a newbie to Nepenthes, I'm still a bit unfamiliar as to what consitutes "bright light." What would you suggest, some kind of compact flourescent retro?

The only other way I could see setting it up with a somewhat manageable substrate would be with a shallow false bottom, just enough to let the water collect underneath and allow me to siphon it out occasionally. I assume an ultrasonic mister would be extremely beneficial to this setup?

I like your suggestion of keeping a couple different color forms together in the same tank. I am planning it around the speckled form...but adding some different color/textures in there would look really nice.
 
  • #16
Hi there, is this a standard 30 gallon which is 36" x 12" x 12"? or a 29 gallon which is 30" L x 12"w x 18"H?

If it's a terrarium of this size 4x 24" fluorescents will do just fine but indeed if you have a Power Compact setup of at least 100 watts that can be evenly distributed over the tank (such as 2x 65 watt fluorex worklight bulbs) I say go for it the plant will love it!  I use 6 x 40 watt fluorescent tubes over my 75 gallon lowland tank (where that ampullaria grows). My suggeston is to get as much light over your nepenthes as possible. While plants like N. ampullaria and N. bicalcarata are considered lowlight they do need bright light to pitcher well and grow quickly as possible. Lowlight in a terrarium (say one or two 20 watt flourescents) VS lowlight or semi shade in the wild is much different.

As I already mentioned the lights will also heat things for you up during the day which really helps lowlanders with growth speed. N. amp is rather slow to begin but once it gets to about 30 cm and starts creeping along the ground then shoots pop up all the time!

Yes, if you can build a false bottom of eggcrate and PVC plastic piping that would be ideal! I use the false bottom method for my 75 gallon lowland tank and it works excellent. An ultrasonic humidifier isn't necessary for this kind of setup and will actually make things too wet in such a small space. The natural evaporation from the soil surface in conjunction with keeping the lid closed and covered except while servicing the plant will keep your humidity high enough in the 80%+ range.

If you were to setup as a false bottom I do not think it would be necessary to use a pot since the water would be drained away. Leave the water in the false bottom until it reaches the bottom of the eggcrate then drain it. But leave enough in there so the water will evaporate and will pass through the soil and transpire into the air inside the terrarium. The plant could also much more easily grow in the carpeting fashion you desire if planted directly in the soil of a false bottom tank, I'm almost tempted to give this a go myself! I've got an empty but equipped 29 gallon...

My suggestion for the soil in this setup would be to use a lot of freely draining materials for the substrate such as american spahgnum moss sold by Mosser Lee at most US garden centers. Many people say new zealand sphagnum moss is the best and it is quite great stuff for some applications but the US stuff is very coarse with many twigs, roots, etc. in it which are slow to breakdown and offer excellent drainage.
To this I wouldmix in  about 10-15% oak leaf mould (crushed leaves that you can get at garden centers) this will acidify the soil without weighing it down or inviting lots of micro organisms that peat seems to. To these two I would finally mix in some horticultural charcoal to keep the soil fresh for as long as possible.   If you can't find the cheaper Mosser lee US sphagnum then the NZ sphagnum mixed with about 50% fine sized orchid bark (1/4" size chips) will give you slowly degrading and fast draining substrate. If you want to add a green carpet of moss overtop the actual planting soil a top dressing of chopped NZ sphagnum will come to life much better than the US sphagnum for some weird reason.

Above all for the soil mix I would avoid using any peat because in such a setup as this. In my straight planted terrarium trials I've only expeienced very horrific smells and eventually compacting soil when using peat or even peat substitutes such as coco fiber. It's just not free draining enough for this kind of setup in my experience and never seems to dry out.

Before you pour your soil mix on the eggcrate put down a sheet of "weed barrier" from the garden center this will allow drainage but keep the soil from falling through the eggcrate and hopefully keep the roots from penetrating into the water below.

Hope that gives you some ideas!
smile.gif
 
  • #17
Thanks again Josh, this info helps a TON!

The tank is actually an AGA (All-Glass Aquarium) standard 30 gal and measures 36x12x16 3/4".  I think 29 gals tend to run 30x12x18.

Thanks for the specifics on "bright light."  I am coming into Nepenthes from the reefkeeping, where "bright lighting" usually consists of a couple 250w or 400w metal halides.

Glad to hear that a humidifier won't be necessary and that evap from the lower water level should suffice.  I'm going to start searching for those substrate materials. What would you suggest as a good average substrate depth for healthy root growth for amps?  

I'll keep this thread posted as I move along--let me know if you end up doing something similar with that 29 gal!  I've also got a 20 gal laying around empty...do you think this would become too cramped too quickly to try?
 
  • #18
If you can supply very bright reef type light do it! I have 240W, 300W and 400W MH over my various grow chambers. The plants will repond very well to such lighting if you can supply it.

A 20 gallon tank would probably be OK since you're looking to just grow a carpet of basal shoots but you will have to prune the main vine sooner which may activate one of the basal shoots into growing long. The main problem with a small tank is getting enough light over it. If you used a 250W MH it would probably be too hot and too intense over such a small tank but perhaps 2x 55 watt compact fluorescents?

As for soil depth, 4-6" would probably be adequate because once the roots hit the weed barrier over the false bottom they should start to travel horizontally and a 30 gallon tank gives them plenty of space to wind around. I'll be interested to see your tank about a year from now after the shoots start coming up!
 
  • #19
I wish I had a couple spare halide retros, but unfortunately I don't. Lighting is probably the single biggest factor right now. If I went with a 20 gal tank, I was thinking of putting an LOA 65w over it...but that would get pricey buying a couple to cover a 30 gal tank. So the 20 gal is more doable, but I think it would get cramped faster than I would like, plus the 30 gal has an extra foot for scaping the terrain, etc.

My problem with the 30 gal tank is the 12" width. I can only fit one shoplight over it (I have a 4' that would provide some overhang on either side, but it covers nearly the entire top). Are 24" models a bit slimmer? Unless I built a hood and retrofitted some ballasts, etc. together, I don't know how I could fit 4 bulbs over the tank.
 
  • #20
Yes, lights are the most expensive part but they are also the single most important part of growing Nepenthes (or any plant life) sucessfully. Light's importance is very closely follwed by humidity, pure water (R/O at all times) and proper temperatures. All these things must be controlled within the appropriate ranges for the species you are trying to grow if you want continuous pitchering and growth as fast and easy as possible (which for Neps is still pretty darn slow).

Yes, those ready made lights of america 4 ft shoplights are too big for use over an aquarium. I learned that the hard way too!

At Home Depot they sell industrial 4ft fluorescent light fixtures for installing in ceilings which have an exact size of 48.5" in length and a  slim profile of 4" wide and hold two tubes using only 48" x 4" instead of the standard shoplight size of 52" x 8" with it's endcaps and reflector. You do have to snap the prewired lamp end caps to the end of the fixtures steel chasis and attach a power cord  to the ballast (buy the cord seperately). It's an easy project taking only about 10 minutes to assemble and only runs about $17 each but that was a couple years ago. For the powercord I just buy a $0.99  extension cord and cut the extension recepticle plug off.

Take a look at the actual celing fixtures aisle at Home Depot or one of those kinds of hardware stores for these kinds of industrial kits (twin tube with no reflector).
 
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