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Thread: Malesiana inermis

  1. #9

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    That's what I'm thinking, that the plants may be 1/4 or so another species, the pollen parent having been an "inermis x [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/new/confused.gif[/img]". The features aren't distinct enough to identify the other species, but certainly the colouring, and to some extent the shape of one of the clones, is not 100% inermis. As the plants hit maturity, they may show clearer clues about their parentage.

    I was just hoping that, given the fact that these are tissue cultures plants, there is bound to be other people out there with exactly the same clone which is more mature and showing clearer features...
    Demystifying Nepenthes: http://www.nepenthesforeveryone.com

  2. #10

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    Let's break the confusion once and for all. the purple on your inermis is nothing more than the beautiful colour bongso gives when hybridizes with Inermis. In other words, some of your seedlings Hamish are Inermis crossed with bongso. and it is not 1/4 but 1/2 bongso. The variation in colour is whitin the range expected when you get hybrids.

    Ie, this is a very reliable source...if you have any doubts

    Gus

  3. #11

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    It *may* be bongso, but Charles has not listed bongso as a species with which inermis hybridises in the wild. As the plant is not mature, it is impossible to tell. The uppers should give a very good indication of whether it is a hybrid, and if so what and to what extent. There are other red species with which it could have hybridised if it is indeed a hybrid. If it were 1/2 bongso, then it would show much less reduced inermis traits and very pronounced bongso ones. As it is, the inermis features are the most obvious by far, the differing traits are overall fairly minor, but enough to give a sneaking suspicion that it is not pure species, certainly Charles has his doubts. To give a definite answer without seeing the plant is a bit didactive.

    Anyway, once it is bigger Charles will be able to give his expert opinion.

    As for reliability of the supplier, we could argue that one, but it's a debate I'll have off-line as it's very political. As I can say with any TC material that is from wild-collected seed, the purity can never be reliable. All one is ever certain of is the female parentage. Most suppliers release TC material as soon as it is ready, they generally don't grow the full line of clones to flowering maturity before releasing them commercially. Ditto with a lot of the seed grown material of new species being released now - there might be a few surprises there, as there have been in the past.

    So the waiting game continues.
    Demystifying Nepenthes: http://www.nepenthesforeveryone.com

  4. #12

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    Hi Hamish:

    Charles Clarke is amongst the most knowledgeable nepenthes person on this earth, but not the only one. There are others, and i hope you recognize that. If Charles Clarke did not find a hybrid with bongso, does not mean it does not exist....
    Regarding traits in hybrids, who know what traits a sibling gets from the parent. If i am not mistaken, you have mentioned that yourself in the past. Sometimes we may get complex hybrids, so the identification gets more difficult.

    Anyway there are plants bigger in size that have that purplish colour and i am sure one should be able to see the characteristics of both parents in these plants.

    Gus

  5. #13

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    Yes Gus, I do realise that, but it was Charles who laid eyes on this plant and cast doubts as to its purity, so I have relied on his expertise. He is also the only Nep academic I have any access to. Which is why I posted the message in the hope that Rob or Tony had ideas given their extensive experience and information access.

    What I was originally seeking to do was to find out whether anyone else had had a clone with traits like this but which was fully matured. So far, nobody has piped up, so it's possible that the trait is only a juvenile thing that will grow out with upper pitchers. Personally, I'm hoping that it is in fact pure inermis, and that the coloration is simply an effect of very high lights levels, levels much higher than maybe seedlings would get in the wild.

    I've got about 6 different clones, and most of them show some red, but it's mostly fairly unobtrusive. A little bit of coloration would not be unusual, because many plants in cultivation do things that are not seen, or are rare, in the wild due to differing factors like light. Only one plant has gone a deep red. Someone had told me that some of the inermis that had been bought from Malesiana a few years ago had turned out to be hybrids, but I have been unsuccessful in locating the source of the rumour, and accordingly I've treated it as such. And I have reconciled myself that some riddles cannot always be solved. Makes life more interesting.
    Demystifying Nepenthes: http://www.nepenthesforeveryone.com

  6. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (SydneyNeps @ Oct. 01 2004,12:25)]It *may* be bongso, but Charles has not listed bongso as a species with which inermis hybridises in the wild.
    Hi,

    Charles only listed hybrids which he found in nature. Hybrids not found in nature as big plants just might not be competitive in nature in the special ecological niche and so don't grow to a big size. In contrast in TC any seedling will germinate and grow to a decent size.

    Andreas told me that he gets much more hybrid offspring from seeds in TC than hybrid plants can be found in nature, which can be very difficult to recognize in young plants. A ggod example is N. pilosa x veitchii which were sold as pure N. pilosa for many years.

    Cheers Joachim

  7. #15

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    Joachim,

    Excellent point, thanks for raising it. I hadn't heard of the sort of thing that you note that Andreas has experienced, but it does make perfect sense.

    BTW, when are you going to update your website I keep checking in on it every week in the hope that you'll have new pics of your plants, it's one of my favourite sites....

    Hamish
    Demystifying Nepenthes: http://www.nepenthesforeveryone.com

  8. #16

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    Hi Joachim:

    Sure much of what you say it's true. TC seedlings don't grow in a competitive environment to get to be big plants, but that does not mean that a male inermis with a female bongso can not produce seed that is weak and of inferior quality unable compete with other naturally found hybrid seed!. If the seed is picked up and put into TC, you'll get the those plants otherwise not found in nature. In this case, the allegedlly inermis X bongso.

    Unless 2 independent nepenthes ecologists scan all the areas where inermis and or bongso grow in Sumatra and they all agree that those two species don't co-exist in the same habitat altogether, then we'll still have to keep our minds open. Interestingly both species are found in Sumatra Jambi and Sumatra barat (pages 112 and 145 of Nepenthes of sumatra and peninsular malaysia)


    just my opinion, as usual

    Gus

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