User Tag List

Informational! Informational!:  0
Likes Likes:  0
Page 2 of 11 FirstFirst 123456 ... LastLast
Results 9 to 16 of 84

Thread: Awesome hibrid idea!

  1. #9

    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    1,163
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Great discussion, gentlemen!
    There is no doubt Nepenthes exhibit hybrid vigor, but its an observation made under horticultural conditions. I live in a lowland area, making highland species difficult to grow with out a costly cooling system. What is interesting to note: many highland hybrids grow trouble free in our environment where either parent would suffer or perish. When a highland species is crossed to a lowland species, the resulting hybrid has a wide temperature tolerance range, not a narrow "intermediate" range. I'm sure a cross like inermis x campanulata would result in progeny that are easier to grow than either parent.

    Trent

  2. #10

    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Central Coast, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    792
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Hi all:

    Regarding the hybrid vigour yes, we found it in cultivation, but let's not forget that we do find natural hybrids. Perhaps hybrid vigour is initially displayed by any newly made hybrid until it finds it habitat once it has settled into its favourite spot, this so called vigour diminishes and the new plant population stabilises. Since Neps habitats are pretty much taken by other species and hybrids, it'd be pretty difficult to follow these "hypothetical stages", but competition in nature remains and any nep showing signs of "weakness" such as not producing enough seed or seedlings displaying weak growth may eventually be selected out or extinguished.


    It is a real shame that genetic analysis are not readily available for the identification of neps.
    I am puzzled by the fact that we call N. mirabilis about 10-15 different types of nepenthes with pitchers that do look like pretty much different from each other and yet we speciate things like tentaculata and murudensis when they look very similar under my very eyes.

    Gus

  3. #11

    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Columbus, Ohio
    Posts
    389
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I've always wonder what a (bical x Truncata) x Bical would look like. Whether o rnot itwould have the size/shape of truncata with the fangs of a bical

  4. #12

    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Central Coast, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    792
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Hamish:

    I missed your last point. Evolution is not the product of hybridisation nor the product of genetic mutations, but a combination of both. I do believe however, that new species may be the product of stable hybrids with a couple of those useful mutations we mentioned earlier. pure mutations may also give rise to new species, but they are limited by the small gene pool available to them as opposed to a larger one available from hybrid individual.

    Pretty stable environments with little or none environmental pressure may have been responsible for the origins of diatas, densiflora, and singalana (possible mutations), which look very much alike, while environments with more selective pressure may have given rise to Hamata ( tentaculata X nep with large teeth). Thus, depending on the environment either mutations or hybrids with a couple of these genetic changes may have given rise to new species.

    Gus

  5. #13

    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    174
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (agustinfranco @ Nov. 05 2004,6:16)]Pretty stable environments with little or none environmental pressure may have been responsible for the origins of diatas, densiflora, and singalana (possible mutations), which look very much alike, while environments with more selective pressure may have given rise to Hamata ...
    Every environment has pressure. Survival or the fittest. Those Neps you describe as ‘simple’ are in fact optimal for their environment. Hamata’s teeth look very sophisticated to us but they are not really more difficult to make than a wide perristome of a Veitchii for example...
    [img]http://home.**********.com/users/phyrex/phyrex.gif[/img]

  6. #14

    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    730
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    hey does anyone actually own a nep hybrid with hamata in it.
    ~Brandon~ aka ~Carnivorkid~
    Member of SEPACPS
    My Growlist

  7. #15

    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Central Coast, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    792
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Phyrex;

    Perhaps no selection pressure is a bit over board, but there are ecosystems with little selection pressure. those are the ones that become extinct if there is a major shake up in the food chain. there are different degrees of selection pressure in different ecosystems and we can't say that all the environments go through the same changes. The problem is that we can't measure these things up with a ruler or a calculator to some extent.

    Regarding Hamata's teeth, it seems to be an advantageous trait for a Nep to have. So far we have witnessed two different species with the same trait. When you mention the word optimal for the environment in which they live, yes i agree, but optimal functionality of a structure (in this case hamata's teeth) is relative to the environmental pressure and a bit of randomness which the plant is subjected to. The moment that those teeth are not needed anymore, they will be gone very easily.

    Gus

  8. #16

    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    The Netherlands
    Posts
    174
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (agustinfranco @ Nov. 05 2004,10:11)]Regarding Hamata's teeth, it seems to be an advantageous trait for a Nep to have.
    Yeah, those ‘simpler species’ you’ve mentioned probably don’t do well in the Hamata environment but it’s also the other way around...

    You see, those teeth are useless when there aren’t ants around that fall off them and feed the plant. [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/new/smile.gif[/img]
    And it does require the plant energy to create those teeth. When this Hamata is competing against other plants which are optimal for their environment and the hamata is also wasting energy without gaining a benefit it surely won’t last very long (evolutionary long).

    I know what you mean with advantageous but in this case(/environment) being simple and efficient has the upper hand.
    [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/new/smile_m_32.gif[/img]
    [img]http://home.**********.com/users/phyrex/phyrex.gif[/img]

Page 2 of 11 FirstFirst 123456 ... LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •