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N. alata 'palawan isle.'

This is supposed to be N. alata 'Palawan Island' but I have to say I am not confident in this ID.

Although a small plant there seems to be none of the characteristic Alata traits like a keel under the pitcher lid and define petiole.

What do you think?

NAlata2.jpg


NAlata1.jpg


It certainly is slower growing than any of my other Alata's and is quite sensitive to temps and humidity fluctuations (still relative to my other Alata).

AJ.
 
My educated guess would be that it isn't N.alata 'Palawan Island'. The wings seem a bit too big and it has prominent spikes down them whereas the real palawan only has flat wings and no spikes. Does it have a pointed inward tip on the bottom of the peristome? I couldn't tell from the picture and in the top one I thought I could see it. Looks like a N.alata 'red form' to me. The one in the picture has more of a round peristome whereas the 'palawan island' form has a upside down loveheart peristome.

C
 
I "thought" that form of N. alata had been changed to N. philippinensis(after being N. wilkeii for a short time), but it's been a long time since I had been in the loop.

Cheers,

Joe
 
Kinda what I thought, Joe. In the CPN several years ago there was an article on Philippine Neps, and there were pictures of an alata-like species found growing near some waterfalls on Palawan. They were attractive, as I recall. I'll dig thru my back issues and see if I can find that. It might have been Phil Mann and friends?
confused.gif

I think Rob Cantley knows something about it as well...

Trent
 
Could it possibly be an immature plant of what Borneo Exotics calls N. sp. 2 (Philippines) ?

The description gives it a lowland altitude distribution, but does not verify Palawan. It looks like the plants pictured in the article in CPN (see my post above).
Perhaps Rob can clarify...

Trent
 
@Christian,
Not sure on that "tip", I'll have to have a look for you.

@Joe,
I did a Google search under the various names.  I found photos taken by Phill of both the Palawan N. alata and N. philippinensis.  They looked different to each other:

N. philippinensis
N. alata 'Palawan Island' (bottom of page)

Unfortunately neither are of immature pitchers like mine so difficult to make a  comparison.

@Trent,
I should add that this is actually one of Phill's plants so I would think his ID was accurate.  It was just the non-alata like appearance that has thrown me.  I might check with him to see if it is seed grown.  If it is them MAYBE there is a chance it is a hybrid?

Isn't the domed lip synonymous with a few other species?

Aaron.
 
Really hard to say on young plants. The absence of a keel, as well as the shape and domed lid, could simply be age related.

Phill's photos you linked there of the Palawan Island look alot like many of the Mansell's lowland forms.

Which issue of the CPN are you looking at Trent?

Tony
 
Thanks Tony.

Looks like patience will have to prevail again
smile_m_32.gif


AJ.
 
I will look for it tonight, and post tomorrow. If memory serves correctly, it is probably the N. philippinensis Aaron linked to.

Aaron's plant does look juvenile, but if he doubts it's pure alata, then it could be this other species from Palawan, what ever it is (philippinensis)

Trent
 
  • #10
Well kinda beats me lol.

If it helps any.. here is a young N. philippinensis from BExotics
NphilippinensisBE.jpg


Doesn't look quite the same to me.  


There is also this thing from BExotics that was released as N. deaniana and I believe Rob now has listed as just N. aff philippinensis.  It is from Mt. Pulgar, Palawan

NdeanianaBECR.jpg


Tony
 
  • #11
You guys are more expert at this than me, but neither look quite the same to me.

Neither have that domed lid and the peristome on mine swings up much steeper at the back.

I'm about to email Phill to get his thoughts.

AJ.
 
  • #12
Doesn't look like any Alata i've seen. Here, on the web, or in California Carnivores. But i think it still might be age related. I have a young verntricosa, and the pitchers on that look pretty similar to the ones off of a runner of my N. Alata. The newest pitcher has some adult characteristics, so i know it's not an Alata. Hope i helped.
Dave
biggrin.gif
 
  • #13
Oh I think it's a N. alata.  The domed lid could be cultural or age.  I don't think you will necessarily be able to verify that it is one local vs another though.

Just another I thought I might throw in for fun.  BTW the previous 2 and this one are roughly 2" tall pitchers so a fair distance from mature.

N. alata Sibuyan lowland
NalataSib.jpg


Tony
 
  • #14
Darned if I know guys!

We sold a species that was licensed to us in tissue culture as "N. deaniana" but have since discontinued it, (nice specimen there Tony). The Philippines is full of Nepenthes that people are calling N. alata just because it seems the easiest thing to do. I don't think a good taxonomist has really looked at this complex. The Luzon N. alata is very different from the Sibuyan N. alata which may even be a distinct species. The Palawan N. alata is more like the Luzon one but has a narrower peristome. I'm just as confused as anyone else frankly. N. philippinensis has me a bit bewildered too, again this is a species that was licensed to us in tissue culture but we then went and got seeds ourselves from the type locality. Looks very much like a N. alata with very narrrow peristome to me.

Sorry I can't be of more help. Aaron, If you get a reply from Phill, please let us know what he thinks.

The pitchers in most of the photos on this thread are still relatively juvenile which makes it harder.
 
  • #15
Greetings from the Philippines! I have to add that Palawan is a relatively long and stretched island with numerous mountains. To make it even more complicated, there are some larger islands in the north like Culion, Coron and Busuanga Island that are still considered "Palawan". I know of a very typical alata-form from Coron Island for example.
The term "Palawan" form is not precise at all. I agree with Rob that here are numerous Nepenthes in the Philippines, which look quite different from each other and are still considered alata, just because of similarities in the flower and lid.

Volker
 
  • #16
Check out Phil Mann's article "A Trip to the Philippines" in the March 1998 CPN. He shows both N. alata palawan and the "unknown species", suggesting that it may be philippinensis. It has a a wide peristome for an alata-type form. He also described them as getting large and the photo shows a few pitchers ranging from green (an upper) to a nearly solid purple lower. They looked like the photo Rob has on the Borneo Exotics site as sp.2 (Philippines).
It could be the philippinensis pic you posted Tony, but it is still so young that the defining characteristics are not yet visible.
Those sibuyan alatas are striking, and all of ours lack the tooth under the lid.

Trent
 
  • #17
I remember fondly when Phill and I were able to email often....
I was on a kick about the mirabilis complex and speciation(notably echinostoma), and his comment was that the alata complex was the one that really needed to be revamped. I did not understand at the time, but it's more apparent now.

Cheers,

Joe
 
  • #18
Haven't met up with Phill for years. Once went on a fun trip with him in Borneo decades ago.

Personally, I think the Sibuyan N. alata is something distinct for a number of reasons. Next month I'll get some herbarium material to Ch'ien for his opinion. We really need a flower though. Need to scan in some slides as well, the mature plants are really quite striking.
 
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