Anyone grow nepenthes in unfavorable conditions?

[cprus]

As the title reads, does anyone do this? I ask because I'm currently housing a Bicalcarata "red flush" in a 50gallon tank but it's starting to outgrow it. I'm thinking of building a large terrarium that's 2.5'W X 4'L X 3ftH. This will also house my ampullaria and N. rafflesiana. But knowing the growing habits of Bicals, I know within a year it'll probably out grow it. The question remains, how do I forcefully grow them outside a desired climate?

Info:
Where? Kitchen with East facing window.
Summer temps: from 75-95F
Winter temps: from 60-70F
Summer Humidity: 10-30% (crap!)
WInter Humidity: 50-70%
Location: San Jose California
EDIT: terrarium conditions now are 82F and 85%.

What can I do? If the risk of shock is too high then I rather just build a terrarium than to lose them.

Thanks

 

[rattler]

normally yes, there are lots of ppl here growing Nepenthes on window sills with no problems. that said. bicals are EXTREAMLY picky about low humidity. i have a bical x amp hybrid that needs high humidity and lots of warmth or it refuses to grow. there are a couple horror stories on here about how only a few hours out of a hot and humid grow chamber killed some nice sized bicals. my spotted amp also likes to have warmth and high humidity or it refuses to do much for me. with such a good sized plant i would be really worried about trying to adabpt it to lower humidity. if it was a younger plant it might be worth a try.

 

[cprus]

Yeah the only thing worrying me is that the plants might not adjust because they've been in such good conditions for so long. I'm leaning towards building a terrarium since it's only fair that they live in the conditions that they were made to live in. I've had these guys for too long, they went from just under 6in to over a foot in a year and it would be sad if they had to suffer because I couldn't give them the right climate. The kitchen is pretty much empty so I can always expand in the future. Thanks for the reply.

 

[Tony Paroubek]

ohhh tough question. Success will depend alot on the plant and exactly how unfavorable the conditions are. Some plants are indeed much more temperamental and simply just don't do well if you push them just a little the wrong way. Some will just up and croak while others may just not pitcher or pitcher sporadically.

There are quite a few people in CA that grow them outdoors and as houseplants but it will take some careful selection and lots of experimentation on your part. Conditions in such a situation vary considerably and can change rapidly and drastically from season to season so only general recommendations can be made as to potentally tolerant plants. N. bicalcarata however is not one in my opinion. Heat is key with this plant. Your posted Winter temperatures are too cold. Maybe if you had a nice warm room it would survive the colder months. Just keep in mind that any plant will need a long acclimation period with careful monitoring. N. bicalcarata will be particularly sensitive to a humidity drop for some time as well.

Tony

 

[schloaty]

Rattler, I have a spotted amp growing in humidity that most likely averages between 45% and 50% right now...Just goes to show you how much individuality these plants have.

That said, I would NOT test out your conditions, cprus, on a bical. You will most likely end up with crisp.

 

[rattler]

schloaty i agree it varies greatly between individual plants. i wouldnt want to try it with my particular one since it seems picky but im not surprised that yours is doing well. my bical x amp is even pickyer, hybrid vigor aparently didnt aply to it adapting to lower humidity with this one. my rokko, ventrata and Ile de France dont mind lower humidity than i am currently giving them but they do seem to enjoy it. experimenting is fine but not really a good idea with a soft grown bical of decent size.

 

[cprus]

Thanks for the help. I've already started drawing and planning the terrarium. It'll be 30"W X 48"L X 36"H. I'm guessing they can stay in there for at least 2 years.

 

[Starman]

I have an idea
When it produces a basal shoot, maybe you can remove it and adapt the basal shoot to be a windowsill plant?
Dino

 

[agustinfranco]

Hi all:

It'd be interesting if people experiment with more tolerant lowlands and report to the forums. So far, N. campanulata adjusts very well to colder conditions to the extent that it pitchers. If i am not mistaken, N. albomarginata var rubra is more of an intermediate plant. N. truncata (typical lowland form) does well under cold conditions.

Are there any others we can play with?

Gus

 

[NepenthesMaster]

Ones that may/will suffer or die are ampullaria, and bical.
I grew a rafflesiana on my windowsill for a few months, and it seemed content.

 

[cprus]

I've finished my large chamber for my bical, amp, rafflesiana 99 clone, and a hummer's giant. The internal temperature is approx 70-85F depending on outside temps and the humidity is 85%. The chamber is 4ft X 2.5ft and is lit by two 40w T12 lights. Air flow is done by an air pump in the water and two holes on the roof in addition to the space between the door hinges. Some of the growth look funny from being cramped in a 50gal aquarium for so long. It took me awhile to finish due to school work etc. plus I wanted my plants to have at least a couple of months to adjust to open covers and low humidity/temps. Everything is looking good, moved them in Friday. Everything looks a little artificial since my baskets, bench, and floor are made of plastic grids. I find repotting to be easier since I can just cut the wire ties and remove the grid or I can just place the entire thing into a larger grid basket. The Amp actually has long roots that are coming out so I should repot it soon. Oh, just in case anyone wants to know, my substrate is pure New Zealand long fiber sphagnum topped with live. I'll probably cover the exposed plastic areas with sphagnum to make it look more natural and jungle like.   

Here's the Chamber located in the back of the kitchen, the surrounding is still messy since I had to move some stuff:

And here are the plants:

Red Flush

Amp

Amp (Whole Plant w/ roots at bottom)

Bical, Rafflesiana, Amp

Hummer's Giant

 

[endparenthesis]

You need to post the plans for that thing... I'm inspired.

How'd you waterproof it? What kind of plastic sheeting is that?

 

[superimposedhope]

that plastic crate stuff is great! Works for soo many things.

Joe

 

[cprus]

I mostly just glued it with clear tub caulk. In the ceph pic you can see the air tube running into a water reserve that is secured below the entire chamber. The heater is located there and the floor is slanted so water will drip into the reserve. The plastic is just plain "I don't know" plastic that I bought at OSH, nothing special, just thick plastic. The bottom had a few leaks but the problem was fixed. As for the plan, there was a general sketch of size and design but I improvised most of it since many factors had to be taken into account. The wood was painted white over and over again, I think three or four times.

Edit: Yes crates are great, a pain to cut though.
Edit again: Anyone think 2 40w lights is too much? I could just take one out. What's the electricity usage for something like that?

 

[superimposedhope]

Unless your using HID you aren't likely to overdo lighting. I personally in my new chamber have 80wtts of blue-ish spectrum (white light) and 100wtts of red spectrum. This is in a 48gl tall/ 1/4 octagon. As for consumption.

Find out your local cost perKwatt hour and multiply it by how many hours you will run power a day and multiply again by number of days in month and that'll be your cost per month for running .

Joe

 

[Tony Paroubek]

Nicely built.

Do you mean a single shoplight with 2, 40 watt tubes?  If so I would add at least one more fixture, if not 2 more for a total of 6 tubes.

I am also wondering on the Ceph.  Seems like the chamber leans more towards lowland?  Cephalotus are not really a tropical lowland plant.  Think your going to have to watch it doesn't get too warm and moist and cause a disease problem with the Ceph.

Tony

 

[superimposedhope]

Looks like they've been that way for a while so I'd let 'em be. But yeah, I don't think I'd have put 'em in there in the first place. Looks good man.

Do what you do
Joe

 

[cprus]

I've been thinking about the ceph also. But my chamber will probably never reach beyond 85F during the day since it is designed to release warm, humid air at the top. It's nothing like my old tank which was so stagnant it smell extremely bad and it reached over 90F once. Now the average temperature is almost at 80, probably around 78F day and 70 night. Summer temps I'm expecting to be up in the mid 80's during the day and 79-80F nights. I usually mist daily just to keep humidity up and keep the air moving. I'm amazed that for a chamber with 80%+ humidity, the leaves of my plants look completely dry.

Man I need more lights although I don't think I can afford the monthly bills if I have six tubes. Don't get me wrong, I would love to have it but my electricity bill was at $190 this time around. I, not having a job, would feel wrong to further push the consumption of power upon my parents. But to make anyone who cares to feel better, my plants grew with only two 15w tubes in the 50gal when I was suppose to have four 40w already according to D'amato's book. They grew just fine for some reason, good coloring and nice leaves. They will just have to make do with what they have for now.

 

[Tony Paroubek]

Maybe you can raise them up so they are sitting closer to the lights? It's not an ideal solution but would help.

Rough estimate on cost since I don't know what kind of ballast is in your light so not sure how many watts it uses. Estimate around 100 per hour for a 2 tube 4' shoplight. Will estimate energy cost at .15 per kwatt.

14hrs x 100 = 1400 watts/day or 1.4kwatts x .15 = .21 cents/day x 30days = $6.30 dollars/month in electricity.

Tony

 

[superimposedhope]

.15 ? Wow! I think right now my local is .067 per Kwatt.
Yeah, my power is way up too. I think my last bill was in that same neighborhood-Rediculous! I run a ton of lights and pumps, etc... My new chamber right now is using about 250wtts total-lights, heat, rain system.

If you are under someone elses roof then I suppose you should be careful of your consumption, though as Tony figured per month it would equal about 2-3 packs of cigarettes or a six pack (pop or beer/ age depending) give up something else and pick up lights instead. I am married and pay my own bills and still have to give up one to get another sometimes.

It'll never end

Joe