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Thread: N. papuana?

  1. #1

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    Hi Everyone,
    Here's a good one for ya! I obtained a plant of New Guinea mirabilis from Bruce Bednar many years ago. He claims to have gotten it from a missionary who collected it in western New Guinea. The missionary was able to import it to the US, and thought he discovered a new species. When Bruce saw the plant, he identified it as mirabilis. Photo below.
    While looking through B. H. Danser's "The Nepenthaceae of the Netherlands Indies" 1926, we noticed his description and botanical illustration of N. papuana. It grows in western New Guinea. Here is Danser's illustration of N. papuana and photos of our New Guinea mirablis.

    Here are some upper and lower pitcher portraits.


    Hope posting the photo of the page from Danser's book isn't a problem. If it is, please edit it out of our post. We can email the picture to those interested.
    Note the leaf structure and growth habit of the plant pictured is the same as the illustration. Same thing -what do you think?

  2. #2

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    Nice plant!!!!!!! Looks the same to me

    Is it for sale anywhere on the web? [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/new/smile.gif[/img]

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    Yes that is very nice
    Bye for now Julian

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    swords's Avatar
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    According to Flora Malesiana Vol. 15 N. mirabilis is often confused with N. papuana but differs only slightly by an orbicular lid and more leathery leaves than mirabilis. Also, upper pitchers having wings and sometimes they're finged. The petiole of N. papuana is said not sheath the stem.
    Sizes: the lower pitchers "not exceeding" 3-6 cm x 2-3 cm (their wild plant/museum specimen measurements have been off on several of my own plants), uppers 12-15 cm x 3 cm and the leaf blades of N. papuana juveniles are not fimbrate as are the leaves of seedling N. mirabilis.

    This is all according to Jebb & Cheek. Wistuba had the "Doorman's Top #2" listed as possibly N. papuana but it doesn't fit the description because I would assume that there would be a mention that it was completely villose and color changing like this "N. Sp. Doorman's Top#2 "N. papuana"" from wistuba:

    Dry:


    Wet:





    Teeth:

  5. #5
    Tony Paroubek's Avatar
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    Another intriguing question. I haven't done alot of looking into the records on this plant. Phill Mann has a picture on his website of what he calls N. papuana. The leaves however appear a different shape than the Danser sketch. Of course it's also possible that pictured plant is not correctly identified either. Or that Danser sketched a N. mirabilis and called it N. papuana! Some interesting information on Joachim Nerz's website which I feel is accurate. None mention any teeth on leaf margins. If the plant you got from Bruce does show teeth on the leaf edges then it would have to be N. mirabilis which I don't believe is the same as N. papuana. So the question is why does Bruce think the plant he received is a N. mirabilis?
    Tony
    Is that a Nepenthes in your pocket or you just happy to see me?

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    Very interesting Josh! Danser describes papuana living at 30 meters and found across low hills. Doorman's Top #2 is extreme highland isn't it? Also, Danser writes that N. papuana is ciliate, not leathery. We looked at our New Guinea mirabilis leaves for quite some time last night and could not find any fine hairs at all. The leaves look glabrous and leathery, but are fimbriate when immature (like mirabilis). We think we have another form of mirabilis, but then what is N.papuana from 30 meters? (don't say neoguinensis, because it doesn't look like it in any way, shape, or form). You are right Josh, the lid is wrong according to Danser's drawing and description. Funny, the lid on that New Guinea mirabilis has been orbicular before, and is very variable in shape and angle.

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    Tony,
    When Bruce gave the id for this plant, there wasn't a ton of info available on New Guinea neps- besides the fact that it looks like a mirabilis. The petiole is identical to Danser's drawing, but may be you're right, he just pictured another mirabilis. We have a feeling there's more to be learned about New Guinea neps. We'll check out the websites you mentioned - thanks!

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    Tony Paroubek's Avatar
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    Deffinately needs to be more research into this region! If the leaf margins are fimbriate occasionally as you mention then Bruce would be correct to identify it as N. mirabilis.

    Assuming the photos Joachim Nerz has are correct, the difference I note is in the lower portion of the upper pitchers. Appears like there are still some wings on the upper pitchers that wrap around the bottom of the pitcher all the way to the tendril reminescent of N. neoguinensis in a sort of way. I don't really see that in your plant Trent, which appears to have no wings on the upper pitchers.

    Guess I will have to break out some books and read some descriptions...
    Tony

    edit: Missed a comma! Also if anyone is wondering, BobZ has links to these sites in the Nepenthes species section.



    Is that a Nepenthes in your pocket or you just happy to see me?

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