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Thread: Veitchii and bongso

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    rattler's Avatar
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    are these guys related? i have both that opened their first pitchers for me this week. one thing that popped in my head that if your took overal color and color patterns out of the equation the only major difference between the two was the fact that the veitchii is "fuzzy" and the bongso isnt. lid shape, peristrome shape, overal configuration, everything i can see is identical other than veitchii is covered in hairs. the veitchii also has a broader peristrome but not by a whole lot. so any one have opinions. i know bongso is supposed to be fairly close to ovata and spathulata but could veitchii fit in there somewhere too?
    cervid serial killer
    Know guns, know peace, know safety. No guns, no peace, no safety
    I didn't get stimulated but he kept his promise on change, that's about all I got left!
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    Somewhat Unstable superimposedhope's Avatar
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    I beleive it is like a "cousin" or similar in relation.

    Joe
    \"There is nothing here of interest to any nation, as a matter of fact there is nothing here but humans!\"

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    Wow, i never realized that. You may be on to something there.
    Update: Parents convinced to allow me to keep greenhouse heated over winter. Most species will not be lost. Too lazy to update growlist.

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    fatboy's Avatar
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    I think it's more likely to be convergent evolution.

    Veitchii is a Borneo plant whereas bongso is from west Sumatra.

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    There are superficial similarities, but closer inspection reveals quite a few differences. Pitcher shape, pitcher dimorphism, slightly peltate tendril attachment in bongso, hirsuteness of veitchii, growth habit etc.

    H.
    Demystifying Nepenthes: http://www.nepenthesforeveryone.com

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    rattler's Avatar
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    fatboy, could very well be. there are just so many simularities between the two that the thought occured to me. i probably wouldnt have noticed its just that both are developing their first pitcher for me since i got them, and are produceing fairly simmilar sized pitchers that ive just been paying really close attention to both.

    some of the small detail struck me as being really similar: the spur at the base of the lid, the same small teeth where the peristrome joins at the top, ect. granted the leaf shape is different and the fuzziness of the veitchii. so maybe common "ancestor" not to far back? i realize all neps have one common ancestor in theory but im talking the split not being to terribly far back in time? now you really got my curiosity up and ill have to get my hands on ovata and spathulata which are supposedly really close to bongso so i can compare and contrast the three of them.

    does anyone have a fairly accurate list of what species grow where? Nepenthes University has quite abit of elevation data for a large number but few tell me what country(s) they are located in. Wistuba does pretty good but his site isnt terribly user friendly when my dial-up is having a bad day.
    cervid serial killer
    Know guns, know peace, know safety. No guns, no peace, no safety
    I didn't get stimulated but he kept his promise on change, that's about all I got left!
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    fatboy's Avatar
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    I tend to agree with Hamish in that they don't appear that close, to me!
    If you have a look at most of the ones from around central/ west Sumatra they are all VERY similar to the point that it can sometimes be very difficult to tell what species you are looking at.
    I still don't think that the pectinata/ gymnamphora thing has been properly settled.

    Perhaps a change of topic will paint a clearer picture, what plant do you think this is?


    Cheers, Troy.

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    rattler's Avatar
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    actually Troy i have no clue. you must remember that i am in the middle of nowhere and have only seen a handful of Nepenthes species outside the small number in my collection. my whole veitchii/bongso connection comes from the fact i have both in front of me. if i had more speces of similar size/age, especially more from Borneo and Sumatra, i bet the differences would leap out to me just like they do you and Hamish. i just need to get myself a greenhouse built so i can grow a larger variety of Neps. i do not doubt what you are telling me is true, i just lack the personal experiance to have the extra data that would have kept me from making the leap.

    that said, what is that species? it reminds me of my bongso but i dont think thats quite right. my bongso doesnt have a constricted waist, the peristrome flairs quite a bit more on mine and the "teeth" up twords the base of the lid are much larger on your picture than on my plant. im guessing your posting a pic of a similar looking species to bongso but it is actually something completely different from a different island/country
    cervid serial killer
    Know guns, know peace, know safety. No guns, no peace, no safety
    I didn't get stimulated but he kept his promise on change, that's about all I got left!
    http://www.wolfpointherald.com/--http://www.safety-brite.net/

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