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Evolution of nepenthes

Hi there,

has the evolution of Neps stopped 200 million years ago? Or are there any new mutations?

Cheers,
Max
 
Max,
I would be willing to bet you that in that much time, there have been mutations. However, remember that mutations most of the time are tiny little changes that are barely, if at all, perceptable.
200 million years is a LONG time.
 
Flowering plants only emerged 135 million years ago.

All the diversity in flowering plants you see today has occurred in that time.

Evolution is a constant, gradual, ongoing, constant process, and it is still happening today.
 
Absolutely. Signs of divergent evolution are certainly visible in Nepenthes. As an example, the group of mirabilis forms found in northern Queensland, Australia. These are Nepenthes all specializing for survival within the slight variations of habitat in the 'wet desert'. Even rowanae is showing a fairly wide set of variations. Same could be said about the smilesii, thorelii, kampotiana, anamensis, now add Viking. Personally, I believe this is a snapshot of Nepenthes evolving and moving into a monsoonal zone, all most likely since the last ice age. They are different from their kin in the pertropical zone.
 
Trent, you seem knowledgable about this... when did Nepenthes emerge?

I am guessing they are fairly recent.
 
Given the show I saw on the Seychelles on PBS a couple weeks ago Neps have been around at least since the Seychelles and Madagascar were part of the same land mass which I believe was between 160 and 65 mya. I think the show mentioned that N. pervillei was one of the earliest Neps (evidenced by the nature of its fruit and how the seed is totally different than that of "normal" Neps) and has basically remained unchanged since ~80mya
smile_k_ani_32.gif
 
I don't think any of it is very well defined, but I have read that Nepenthes emerged after the catastrophic extinctions that ended the Cretaceous. This is when flowering plants (and mammals) very suddenly burgeoned. I've heard the same statements about pervillei being the most primitive, and thus, probably most unchanged for millions of years. Or is it the chicken and the egg? Maybe pervillei has simply evolved to its state for survival. Island evolution can be extreme because of isolation. Danser believed that Neps probably originated in Madagascar and spread to their current distribution. Would that make madagascarensis the oldest species? Over the millions of years, can you imagine how many times species of Neps evolved, and then went extinct as climate changed, only to be replaced by a new set of species?
 
if N. madagascarensis is the oldest, that's interesting since it's rather unremarkable, unlike N. hamata or N. platychilla or others.

evolution doesn't try to make things the best they can be, it tries to make them good enough for right now.

not that i think of it, would you consider humans messing around with nepenthes being indirectly responsible for their evolution in culture?
 
that would apply to any plant that has proven of value to humans. Look at modern hybrid vegetables like corn, watermelon, tomatoes et cetera. They are definitely 'evolved' by humans, compared to their 'wild' counterparts.
As for Neps., the reason for the extreme forms such as found in Sumatra and Borneo is hypothesised in Charles Clarke's books. Competition with each other creates the diversity. Where several Neps grow together in the same habitat, they tend to specialize in the prey they attract. Where there is only one species present, the tendency is towards a somewhat plain looking trap. Of course, its all theory that sort of holds together. There's always exceptions.
 
  • #10
As Nepenthes move into and populate the monsoonal zone, you can see the evolution of thickened leaves (viking, rowanae) and thickened rootstalks and stems bases (viking, kampotiana, thorellii) and seasonal deciduousness (thorelli, kampotina). As Nepenthes continue to colonize seasonally wet areas, they may evolve succulence. Imagine a caudiciform nepenthes!
smile_k_ani_32.gif
 
  • #11
God I love this thread! It restores my faith in discussion boards
smile.gif
 
  • #12
My opinion on human involvement is that these plants, I'm thinking mostly orchids, have accidently evolved one of the best plant adaptations: they've caught the eye of a species willing to invest huge amounts of energy to propagate and spread these plants.
So really which is the intelligent species, the one that wastes(from an evolutionary standpoint; i love my plants) tons of energy, or the one that capatalizes on the other by making colorful flowers?

Cool thread
Chris
 
  • #13
I would think Neps that are alone on an island with a reasonable amount of bugs (so most of indonesia) would remain relitively unchanged since any change would not reasonably result in a reproductive advantage.
 
  • #14
islands do funny things to evolution. you have more compitition. evolution isnt always a slow long, drwn out process. when you have an island, especially smaller ones it tends to kick evolution into overdrive. animals and plants are forced to adapt to a niche or niches rather quickly in order to survive.
 
  • #15
would everyone consider natural hybridization a form of evolution?

would you consider cultivation a form of artificial/controlled evolution?

selective breeding?
 
  • #16
Yep. Evolution is not some slow steady process.
As for the Indochina Neps, I agree with Slurm. These monsoonal Neps are all fairly recent. Same for Australia. It seems these forms of mirabilis are rapidly differentiating.
Hamish. Educate me a bit on Australian geology. Was there an ice age below the equator within the same time frame as the great ice sheets that covered the northern continents?
 
  • #17
I beleve there was since climate is sort of a global thing. You do have a point I was jsut thinking of N. madigascarensis which is probibly a more primitive Nep. I found some site today (can;t remember which one) that said the Madigarcarensis group (apparently Neps are broken down into groupings throught DNA analysis) is the most primitive and is thought to have originally started when Madigascar was connected to Afro-India and some plants in Europe were probibly the beginning of that. Since Nep seeds are so light they could supposedly be spread across Indoneasia. I never saw the stats on what Neps were in What group so I can't say I beleive all of it since I could not see all the Info.
 
  • #18
Natural selection is survival of the fittest, and only those who survive pass on genes. Artificial selection is when humans breed animals or plants for desired characteristics.

On evolution being slow and steady, i though it happened in bursts sometimes. During major climate changes everything died off and those that could survive rapidly reproduced and were ussually different then the previous population.

My bio teacher would be proud of this post.:)
 
  • #19
True Tony but not random bursts only after a major disaster for that ecosystem and only enough of the one species survived to breed genetically limited off-spring which then had a reporductive advantage and thus came the rise of new species. I don't think that sentance missed anything. The thing I would be interested in is humans breeding: Artifical or Natural selection? I suppose it would be natural until someone (usually slaves) are forced to breed.
 
  • #20
Some animals moved out of the sea and onto dry land to survive.
Some animals have adapted by growing wings and flying.
Cows taste good, so humans make sure they survive.
smile.gif
Just a thought.
 
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