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Thread: Utricularia, section Orchidioides - info sharing & discussion

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by amphirion View Post
    @peter: seems to me that the ex section Iperua, or at least the majority of its clones can be grown in waterlogged conditions. the other members of orchidioides prefer more drier conditions as well. the way how you are growing campbelliana seems to support this.
    for the record ive watched my alpina grow essentially as an affixed aquatic.....
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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by moof View Post
    I'm new to this forum...
    Hi Peter,
    Welcome to Terra!! Way to come in and make a splash with the 'Big guns'! Congratulations on your success with the campy!

    Quote Originally Posted by moof View Post
    looks like I'm a bore so maybe I'll stop for today
    Definitely not boring here! Some questions on your U. campbelliana:
    - what are your conditions? (humidity, lighting, watering/spraying schedule, temps, etc)
    - I got some xaxim (or something similar - treefern roots) with an order a few months ago but have been scared to try it - seems like it would dry out very quickly... Also, mine appears to have a lot more air space between the little branches. There are different densities of the material? I think I would feel much more comfortable if the little branches/roots of the slab were more densely woven
    - You just tied the LFS, the campy was growing in, onto the xaxim slab and it took off - growing into the slab - right?
    - how long have you had it growing like this?
    - what is the slab tied to in the 1st pic?

    Tobias also has some growing vertically (on a rock?) and only says that the air is "slightly humid".
    All the best,
    Ron
    You must do the thing you think you cannot do. --- Eleanor Roosevelt

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  3. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by RL7836 View Post
    Hi Peter,
    - I got some xaxim (or something similar - treefern roots) with an order a few months ago but have been scared to try it - seems like it would dry out very quickly... Also, mine appears to have a lot more air space between the little branches. There are different densities of the material? I think I would feel much more comfortable if the little branches/roots of the slab were more densely woven
    I can answer this part. Tree fern does come in alot of densities, I have some that you could pass 1/4" objects though and others that are dense as wood.

    As for the drying out part, I have some of the dense pieces cut into 2" X 3" X 1/4" slabs and they are hanging on the walls of a vivarium with constance 60%+ humidity. The tree fern does not dry out throughout a week, I rewater them once a week and they are never dry. The slabs hanging close to the fans do dry out along with the less dense pieces. You could do a dry run with the slab + mounting medium but minus the plant, and just see how it goes.

    So far I have been avoiding mounting Utric's on mounts because I think they would be harder to keep from spreading and contaminating other Utric's. I would agree it probably would be a prefered method of growing alot of them. The results I've had with U. graminifolia on driftwood would support this even with non orchidioides.

    I would think the more open mediums (airflow to the "roots") is the reason for the improved results not the horizontal position. I've been moving over to more open mediums and I've had nothing but good results. (Warning for the newer people...My vivariums are ALWAYS over 60% humidity, your results may vary greatly)

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by RL7836 View Post
    what are your conditions? (humidity, lighting, watering/spraying schedule, temps, etc)
    Humidity is very high, ca. 80% during the day and over 90% at night. The light conditions are rather poor - two 15W fluorescent lights and normal daylight they get through an east-facing window. As you can see on the first pic, the xaxim slab stands constantly in water, maybe it even gets too wet sometimes! I've got a fogger onside the terrarium which is working 10 minutes every day. Spraying - from time to time The temps are ca. 77F during the day and 59F at night.

    Quote Originally Posted by RL7836 View Post
    - I got some xaxim (or something similar - treefern roots) with an order a few months ago but have been scared to try it - seems like it would dry out very quickly... Also, mine appears to have a lot more air space between the little branches. There are different densities of the material? I think I would feel much more comfortable if the little branches/roots of the slab were more densely woven
    Yes, there are different densities but I think every treefern slab will work, even the ones that have a more sparse consistency. This utric really "catches" everything with it's stolons:
    http://www.wistuba.com/images/dsc2196_579.jpg
    You can always try the xaxim with some less demanding species

    Quote Originally Posted by RL7836 View Post
    - You just tied the LFS, the campy was growing in, onto the xaxim slab and it took off - growing into the slab - right?
    Exactly like that!

    Quote Originally Posted by RL7836 View Post
    - how long have you had it growing like this?
    3 months only or so, and the results are as shown! It really took off immediately

    Quote Originally Posted by RL7836 View Post
    - what is the slab tied to in the 1st pic?
    That metal thing is my cooler, that's a radiator which is cooled with water. I've got a freezer standing next to the terrarium, with a water pump and a reservoir inside. The cold water is pumped into the radiator.

    Quote Originally Posted by RL7836 View Post
    Tobias also has some growing vertically (on a rock?) and only says that the air is "slightly humid".
    Interesting! I agree the xaxim keeps the water very well and there's virtually no need of watering if the humidity level inside is at high levels and you spray it from time to time.

    By the way, what are your watering methods for the rest of the group? Really interesting with the alpina kept as an aquatic affixed, I know that U.longifolia can be found growing this way in the natural habitat. But I just can't get the watering of U.geminiloba right. This utric has been always one of the most demanding for me, what are your conditions? Also U.praetermissa and U.endressi don't do as good as I'd like them to in my collection. U.quelchii grows in the same conditions perfectly, as well as the weeds (reniformis, alpina etc)

    Peter

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by moof View Post
    By the way, what are your watering methods for the rest of the group?
    I usually water about once per week for most of the enclosures but that may be longer or shorter - depending on the conditions. I usually water when I see the live sphagnum drying out in several of the pots. As I'm trying to increase my humidity, I notice that the time between waterings is longer (as expected).

    Quote Originally Posted by moof View Post
    But I just can't get the watering of U.geminiloba right. This utric has been always one of the most demanding for me, what are your conditions?
    Fwiw, I added some comments on my U. geminiloba over in RSS's flower thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by moof View Post
    Also U.praetermissa and U.endressi don't do as good as I'd like them to in my collection.
    Join the club! I've had some U. endresii for ~14-15 months. It has grown ok but has not taken the next step up beyond leaves of 1.5 - 2.5". About 2-3 months ago, I planted some netpots - one in 100% live LFS and the other in a fairly open peat mix. The plant in live LFS is has spread throughout the pot and is generally more robust than the other. Maybe RSS can provide some more hints as his seem to be doing very well...

    I received a U. praetermissa in the fall (Sept 20) with one large leaf and at least one large obvious tuber (>0.25"). I potted it in a netpot w/ 100% live LFS. The single leaf died within a week or 2 and nothing obvious has happened since. I have been trying to keep the pot on the dry side (but possibly not dry enough?). Sometime I'll probably need to start digging around to see if it's still alive & non-rotted down there (but I keep hoping for a new leaf).

    In the 1st post in this thread, there is a link to a Belanger CPN article where he recommends a hard annual dormancy which helps to produce good growth & regular blooms (definitely recommend reading).

    Quote Originally Posted by moof View Post
    U.quelchii grows in the same conditions perfectly, ....
    U. quelchii has tormented me. The one I received 14-15 months ago promptly died back and I have struggled to nurse tiny remnants back to respectable growth. I 'seem' to be making some progress recently with higher humidity ((as he knocks on wood)). Another plant, received in late Sept with one leaf (~2"), has added a 2nd leaf similar leaf and several smaller ones. I just noticed yesterday that it is starting to send up another leaf (so there may yet be hope....).

    Quote Originally Posted by moof View Post
    ...as well as the weeds (reniformis, alpina etc)
    While I agree that U. alpina is the closest thing to a weed that I have (in the original Orchidioides), neither of my 2 clones have bloomed yet so i cannot say that I have yet made them completely 'happy'. The 2 smaller forms of reniformis have both grown like weeds but also have not flowered. The larger seedgrown clones are robust but also have yet to bloom and another clone (fairly large) puts out one leaf at a time. This leaf usually lasts for 1-3 months and then it dies and another comes up (sometimes another leaf comes up before it dies). I grew U. reniformis 'Enfant Terrible' for a few months before it's sickly self decided to just die ... The seedgrown clones will spend the winter in a cool back basement room (with my 'outside Cephs' and VFTs). I plan to dry them out and only give them water in the spring (& see if those massive swollen roots / rolons do any good .....
    - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    Later edit: While I was doing my morning misting, I decided I had waited long enough and I checked the U. praetermissa - bad news. No tubers and the only quasi-recognizable remnants of roots were rotten. While the inside of the pot was not really wet, it had more moisture than I expected, given that I was trying to keep it 'barely wet' (aka: mostly dry). So that stinks!

    Now that I was in there rooting around, I remembered Peter's xaxim post. While I'm not yet ready to jump head first with my small U. jamesoniana (even though that probably makes more sense), I took one of my small U. asplundii 'spares', removed it from the small cup it was in and tied it and the LFS it was on to a treefern slab (I had located the slabs last night, found that the 2nd one was more dense than the 1st). Wish me luck! Here's a fuzzy pic before it went into the tank:

    The white lines are pointing to the leaves. The small ones on the right & left were visible in the pot but the newly unfolding larger leaf in the middle was hidden by some live LFS. I tried to keep most of the visible roots & bladders on the treefern side, behind the moss. The middle & right leaves are connected, the one on the left is soloing... (ooops)
    Last edited by RL7836; 12-24-2010 at 11:32 AM.
    All the best,
    Ron
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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by RL7836 View Post
    In the 1st post in this thread, there is a link to a Belanger CPN article where he recommends a hard annual dormancy which helps to produce good growth & regular blooms (definitely recommend reading).
    I'll check it out for sure!

    Quote Originally Posted by RL7836 View Post
    U. quelchii has tormented me. The one I received 14-15 months ago promptly died back and I have struggled to nurse tiny remnants back to respectable growth. I 'seem' to be making some progress recently with higher humidity ((as he knocks on wood)). Another plant, received in late Sept with one leaf (~2"), has added a 2nd leaf similar leaf and several smaller ones. I just noticed yesterday that it is starting to send up another leaf (so there may yet be hope....).
    I noticed that U.quelchii needs a lot of time to get adapted to new conditions, the plantlet I received showed first signs of growth after 180 days! I keep mine in a net pot, only half an inch of water, looks like it's doing fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by RL7836 View Post
    While I agree that U. alpina is the closest thing to a weed that I have (in the original Orchidioides), neither of my 2 clones have bloomed yet so i cannot say that I have yet made them completely 'happy'. The 2 smaller forms of reniformis have both grown like weeds but also have not flowered.
    There's a lot of various clones of these species, some of them flower rarely and some other are easy to. None of my alpinas ever flowered, but I know people that purchased alpinas in garden centres here and got them flowering on the windowsill

    Quote Originally Posted by RL7836 View Post
    Later edit: While I was doing my morning misting, I decided I had waited long enough and I checked the U. praetermissa - bad news. No tubers and the only quasi-recognizable remnants of roots were rotten. While the inside of the pot was not really wet, it had more moisture than I expected, given that I was trying to keep it 'barely wet' (aka: mostly dry). So that stinks!
    Sorry to hear that. Was it kept in a net-pot? Hope you'll get another one soon!

    Quote Originally Posted by RL7836 View Post
    (...)I took one of my small U. asplundii 'spares', removed it from the small cup it was in and tied it and the LFS it was on to a treefern slab
    Hope you'll get nice results, I'm looking forward for photos of the plants' future progress on the xaxim!

    Peter

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    Story time!

    One day while watering, me being the clumsy person I am, ended up knocking over my Utric. endressii. Thankfully there was no damage or so I thought. A few weeks past and it was time for my monthly clearing out the debris from the hydroton. Much to my surprise there was this tiny little leaf with a chunk taken out of it. It was still green and could only be from one plant in there. So I very quickly threw some potting medium into a cup and gently laid the leaf onto a moist spot. I forgot about the little guy for a few weeks, figuring his death would come soon. The next time I went to check on him, he was growing a root! Ok, so know I'm thinking I should actually try and take care of the little one. Well last weekend while watering I noticed some growth! The entire leaf is about 1/2".

    The morale of this story is that you can it would seen grow Utric. endressii from a leaf pull.

    Every good story needs a photo.
    Utricularia endressii leaf

  8. #38
    instigator thez_yo's Avatar
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    Oh very nice! I didn't know you could propagate utrics from leaf pullings. Do you have pics of the flowers? I haven't ever seen a good thread on *just* pretty utric flowers...

  9. #39
    just your friendly neighborhood INTJ... amphirion's Avatar
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    that IS exciting! dont think anyone is willing to do leaf cuttings out of their precious orchidioides! that being said, i suppose the chances of striking depend on how much of the base leaf you have? something similar along the lines of petiolaris dews?
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    Quote Originally Posted by thez_yo View Post
    Oh very nice! I didn't know you could propagate utrics from leaf pullings. Do you have pics of the flowers? I haven't ever seen a good thread on *just* pretty utric flowers...
    I have not yet flowered this one. Might be a good idea to start a Utric. flower thread like the orchid flower thread?

    Quote Originally Posted by amphirion View Post
    that IS exciting! dont think anyone is willing to do leaf cuttings out of their precious orchidioides! that being said, i suppose the chances of striking depend on how much of the base leaf you have? something similar along the lines of petiolaris dews?
    This was not an intended pull so I'm not sure on the details. The main plant I have is sending out enough runners that I would not pull a leaf, just guide the runners to a pot then snipe a month later. In the spring I might do an intentional pull just to see what would happen.

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