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Thread: Seeds from a red piranha?

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    JMurphy97's Avatar
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    Can a red piranha and dente plant produce seeds like a regular VFT and grow into the same type? Someone said you can't grow them from seeds so how can they keep reproducing?

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    technoracer's Avatar
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    most likely, seeds from a dente or a red piranha will grow into typical vft's. even if you get a seedling that exhibits the characteristics of the cultiver from which the seeds came, you can't call it by that name because it is not an exact genetic clone (ie: seeds from a dente that grow into plants that look like dente's, can not be called a dente.).

    reproduction comes from tissue culture and cuttings and divisions of the cultiver.

    tech...



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    JMurphy97's Avatar
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    Will it look like the dente though? Why would it come from one plant but look like a different plant? What if you buy "red dragon" seeds, will the plant turn red or stay green? What I'm saying is if they seeds come from a "red piramha" plant will they grow to look like the "red piranha" or regular? Kind of confusing.

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    It's been one of dem days BigCarnivourKid's Avatar
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    As tech states, you'd get mostly typical VFTs. I believe, that in the case of a seedling that matches the parent plants official description, you can call it by that parent plants name. The way the rules are phrased, if a plant fits the official description of a cultivar, it can be considered that cultivar. That also means it is possible to get a plant that looks like a particular cultivar that isn't from the same crosses as the original cultivar. Sounds like a bass-ackward rule but it's the rule (until something better comes along).

    EDIT: There is only one species of VFT. All the VFT's, "Big Mouth, 'Dentate Trap', 'Green Dragon', 'Red Dragon, etc., are just a "mutation" or variation of the typical VFT. These are CULTIvated VARieties (CULTIVARs) of the VFT. The only reason they are around in any number is that they appealled to people who spread them around. While they occasionally pop up from seeds, the best way to insure getting the same characteristics in a new plant is to make clones of the original plant using TC or leaf cuttings. In the wild they aren't that common.

    Sorry, I don't mean to lecture, but thought this might clear up why 'Red Dragon' or any VFT cultivars seeds will mostly result in a typical VFT.
    ---Steve Allinger---

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    JMurphy97's Avatar
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    So how do you make these different variations? I want to buy one let it flower and get more that. I thought one red piranha would get me more if I let it flower and produce seeds. Now I'm just gonna get regular VFT's. darn wish I knew this before I bout red dragon seeds.

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    Let's positive thinking! seedjar's Avatar
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    Some may look like they original, some may not. You should read up a little on Mendelian genetics. Basically, the variations are just unusual genetic traits that are turned on in a certain combination. The variations come about by random mutation - all the cultivars you see are descendants of 'ordinary' looking VFTs. You're more likely to get the characteristics of a certain cultivar in that plant's offspring, but there's no assurance. You just have to plant lots of seed and wait for an unusual variety to appear. Once you have a plant whose characteristics you'd like to preserve, you have to clone it rather than propagate it by seed.
    I hope that helps.
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    It's been one of dem days BigCarnivourKid's Avatar
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    There are ways to induce mutations artificially using chemicals that are very hazardous to your own health if not treated with care and respect. Not something I would want in my own house to be honest. Don't give up on the seeds entirely. When it comes to genetics, you can never be sure what will happen 100% of the time. There's always a possibility of a wild card in the bunch. I selfed a red VFT of mine and all the seedlings that came up were red. Mind you, only one of them has survived (neglected 'em [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/new/smile_h_32.gif[/img] ), but with luck it will be as colorful if not more so than its parent.
    ---Steve Allinger---

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    Yes....seeds produced from a true red piranha will produce mostly dark red, piranha-ish type plants. I planted out 200 seed from a selfing of red piranha and all 200 of them are deep burgundy red with dentate teeth. I also planted out several flats of dentate seed produced from selfings of my oldest plants and none of them ever showed any typical vft characteristics in their mature stage. They all had varying degrees of dentate type teeth.

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