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Question about Dormancy & Slugs

i'll be keeping my VFT indoors and i was wondering if it is necessary to prepare my plant for the dormancy months?

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]DORMANCY : Dormancy is best done by taking the plant out of the pot during mid-autumn , spray it with fungicide , wrap the roots with peat moss or lfs ( long fibered sphagnum ), put it in a plastic bag , then place it in the refridgerator , and take it out in early spring . If you are fortunate enough to live in an area similar to the climate found in a venus flytrap's natural habitat then you should keep your plants outside year round . Remember to take off dead plant matter to avoid fungus .

Also i've read from http://www.botany.org/bsa/misc/carn.html that small slugs are also suitable for the plant and i wanted to see if anyone has ever fed their VFT slugs?
 
hi, welcome!

yup, dormancy is necessary. where do you live? ideally, if you can keep it outdoors, you should...that way it will get enough light and it will naturally prepare itself for dormancy as the daylight hours and temperatures decrease. otherwise, you'll have to figure out some other way to simulate those conditions.

as far as slugs...one of my little monsters caught one, and seemed to be enjoying it just fine. that is, until some punk bird came, pecked the trap open and stole it.
mad.gif
 
i want to try to see if a VFT can get by dormancy permenantly if grown from seed and not given dormancy. maby experience triggers dormancy. heck if this works i could have an everygrow VFT!
Alex
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (glider14 @ Sep. 04 2006,5:29)]i want to try to see if a VFT can get by dormancy permenantly if grown from seed and not given dormancy. maby experience triggers dormancy. heck if this works i could have an everygrow VFT!
Alex
I personally don't think that would work (a VFT never going dormant). The reason is that VFTs seem to use up energy at a slightly faster rate than they acummulate it during an active growing season. They grow vigorously, trap lots of bugs and use up energy digesting those bugs. Just like humans, they need some "down time" to recharge.

At the end of the season, and to some extent during dormancy as the living green leaves continue to photosynthesize, the plant begins to deposit the nutrition at the base of the leaves, in the underground "bulb" of the VFT, building a reserve for the next season's vigorous growth.

Without this reserve, I believe a Venus Flytrap would expend all its energy and effort and would "live fast and die young," so to speak, within a few seasons/years. Otherwise, with a proper rest and recharge period every year, they can live for many many years. (which causes me to wonder what some of the recorded lifespans of individual VFTs are)

Just my opinion and two bits--
smile_m_32.gif


Steve / xscd
 
oh well...
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (glider14 @ Sep. 04 2006,6:05)]oh well...
--Hey, don't take my word for it! My point of view is anything but scientific, and just based on my own mostly subjective observations.
smile.gif


To me, Venus Flytraps grow extravagantly, investing all they have in biger and better and more numerous solar collectors and resource processing and storage facilities (leaves).

All of this heavy investment will hopefully pay off at some point instead of bankrupting the plant, and usually it does so, at the end of the season when the Venus Flytrap is in high gear producing and extracting nutrients, finally, at a much greater rate than it is expending them as it begins to draw back from expansion and concentrate on savings.

After all, there is less sun because the days are shorter and the angle of the sun is more glancing than direct. But all of its many leaves are producing through photosynthesis and processing through trapping and digestion lots of nutrition all at once, which is then stored safely at the base of the leaves underground where they don't die even though the top, visible parts of the leaves die.

Anyway, its like investing everything you've got for the hope of greater and greater return, until that time when circumstances allow you to back off while the machinery of resource gathering fills your bank account--or something like that.

Yeah, I know, weird analogy-- But like I said, it's not science, it's just the way it feels man!
smile.gif


Steve / xscd
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]yup, dormancy is necessary. where do you live? ideally, if you can keep it outdoors, you should...that way it will get enough light and it will naturally prepare itself for dormancy as the daylight hours and temperatures decrease. otherwise, you'll have to figure out some other way to simulate those conditions.

am from toronto so its definitely too cold outside during the winter months and now am just considering what would be better
method 1) http://www.terraforums.com/ib312....97;st=0
(stick in the fridge)

OR

method 2) If you live in a place with winters that are too harsh and cold, consider wintering your plant next to a sunny window. The plant will get sunlight, but being close to the cold window it might be chilly enough for dormancy. Folks who live in the far north are used to chilly rooms, anyway, so the plant might fit right in. As in Method 1, the plant will need light because it is photosynthesizing as normal.

-I definitely have a chilly room in the house so method 2 is also an option.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]as far as slugs...one of my little monsters caught one, and seemed to be enjoying it just fine. that is, until some punk bird
came, pecked the trap open and stole it.
mad.gif
haha...thats one hungry bird :p

what method do you guys/gals thank is better?
thanks everyones for your help
 
Excuse me, I haven't quite worked out that quote thingy. please endure endure my cut and paste
>>>>xscd says: >>>>>which causes me to wonder what some of the recorded lifespans of individual VFTs are)<<<<<
I have seen off spring of the 3 plants that Bob Z. bought back in 1955. They are still alive, thriving and producing new offspring every year.
I don't think the original plant parts are still there because of the way VFTs grow.That is old leaves and 'bulb' parts dying off being replaced by new ones.
Have you noticed that,if you have a VFT long enough , it kinda walks to the edge of the pot.
IMHO I think that he should name his plants_1955 . They were probably wild collected so that he could buy them. Since there was not much tissue culture of carnivorous plants going on at that time.
 
I live just below you, near Buffalo, near the Peace Bridge & Ft. Erie. I've been keeping VFT's, Sarracenias, and temperate sundews in buckets as minibogs. When the temps get to where they are going to be below freezing (sometime in November) I tote them upstairs to the attic, where it will be cold, but not quite freezing and place them, as is, right at a SW window sill. I water sparingly and wait for the increasing photoperiod to awaken them, in due course.

There are others in the northen climes that leave theire plants outside all year long. A grower called WildBill does so and heavily mulches his plants, insulating them for the winter.

There are still others who put them in the fridge when the outside gets down to about 4 C. Some put them in baggies, with a fungicide. Some put the pots directly in the fridge. There's a lot of variation on a theme.
 
  • #10
I would have thought VFTs collect more energy through the growing season than is used up. The excess being used to bulk up the rhizome, which acts as a storage unit for new growth. VFTs go dormant in winter because it's cold, not because they can't sustain 365 maximum growth. This has been programmed genetically, so preventing dormancy maybe just causes them to self destruct. You don't see the rhizome whither away to nothing as it isn't using up more energy than it can store.
 
  • #11
cool, I have relatives in Ft. Erie ...

i have some more newbie questions :p
- if i plan on putting it in a chilly room next to the window during the fall&winter months, do I need to trim the leaves down and cut off the traps?

- if I plan on putting it in the fridge should i remove all traps and maybe even trim the leaves as well to prevent fungus growth? I've read through scottychaos' post about the 'fridge method' and am afraid to trim down the leaves as much as he did.
(i guess am just scared that i might end up killing it :p. i just bought the plant from a local plant nursery)

- last one (for today, well ... maybe ;) ), i've noticed that some of these traps close really slow, or doesnt close at all when a live insect is placed in the trap. I'm thinking that maybe this is due the approaching dormancy period and the plant is no longer as active. am i correct? I think the plant is doing alright because when i bought it home it will complete green and now after a couple of days, some of the traps are starting to display a light shade of red
biggrin.gif
 
  • #12
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]I would have thought VFTs collect more energy through the growing season than is used up. The excess being used to bulk up the rhizome, which acts as a storage unit for new growth. VFTs go dormant in winter because it's cold, not because they can't sustain 365 maximum growth. This has been programmed genetically, so preventing dormancy maybe just causes them to self destruct. You don't see the rhizome whither away to nothing as it isn't using up more energy than it can store.

Ohh ... icic, yeah i was basically trying to prevent dormancy but since its required i guess ill stick it in the fridge or in a chilly room
 
  • #13
[b said:
Quote[/b] (flymantang @ Sep. 05 2006,8:51)]- if i plan on putting it in a chilly room next to the window during the fall&winter months, do I need to trim the leaves down and cut off the traps?

- if I plan on putting it in the fridge (...)

- last one (for today, well ... maybe ;) ), i've noticed that some of these traps close really slow, or doesnt close at all when a live insect is placed in the trap. I'm thinking that maybe this is due the approaching dormancy period and the plant is no longer as active. (...)

When my own VFTs are obviously slowing down for the winter, with much less vigorous growth and sluggish traps, I use the cold-window method, which I would prefer to the refrigerator method for several reasons, one of which is that VFTs still do grow (a little) and photosynthesize and store food during their dormancy.

Being uprooted, cut up and placed in a dark fridge would not be my idea of fun (if I were a VFT).
smile_m_32.gif


In my case, I have a room adjacent to the main house, a walled-in backyard patio, that I keep cooler in the winter 50s and 60s Fahrenheit. However, the concrete floor directly beneath the large floor-to-ceiling south window of the room is quite a bit colder than the ambient temperature of the rest of the room, because a) it is lower, and cool air falls and settles in low spots, and b) it is directly beneath the window where cold air falls from the inside surface of the glass almost continuously and washes over and around the Venus Flytraps and other plants I have placed there for dormancy, chilling them.

By the way, be sure not to keep Venus Flytraps too wet during dormancy. They don't need much water at all during that time, and to avoid problems with possible rot and infections, it's better to try to keep the planting medium just moist to barely moist. When I water during dormancy, I water (thoroughly) early in the day so that the medium has a chance to dry out some before the colder night. I don't water again for perhaps 7-14 days as the medium, without much active plant growth to suck up and and use water nor heat to make it evaporate faster, slowly dries to just barely moist again.

Regarding a trap closing slowly, that happens for three reasons that I know of: the leaf is older and the trap has already closed quite a few (perhaps 4-5) times, the plant has been newly transplanted and has not acclimated yet and is not yet over its transplant shock, or dormancy is approaching and the entire plant slows down. In this latter case, sluggish traps are accompanied by slower growth of new leaves. More of the old leaves begin to turn brown and die back to the surface of the soil, but fewer new leaves appear to replace the old ones. That's a good indicator that the VFT is slowly preparing for dormancy.
 
  • #14
[b said:
Quote[/b] (xscd @ Sep. 05 2006,5:22)]Being uprooted, cut up and placed in a dark fridge would not be my idea of fun (if I were a VFT).
smile_m_32.gif
but remember, the plant is *already* fully dormant *before* it is "uprooted, cut up and placed in a dark fridge"
(or at least it should be, if its left outside all autumn)

so the plant doesnt "feel" a thing..its not a shock at all, because its already dormant..

the cool thing about the "fridge method" is that it simply continues the dormancy that began naturally outdoors.
it just moves the plants to the fridge to keep a *cool* dormancy, just above freezing, rather than a SEVERE freezing dormancy it would have if it was left outdoors..
the fridge is much more mild than outdoors in the nothern US and Canada...

the fridge doesnt *create* the dormancy..it merely maintains it..that is important to understand.

Scot
 
  • #15
As to leaves and trimming, just remove that which is black. Green is good and it gives the plant something to work with when it begins wake up.

Dormancy is a misunderstood concept. There's the process of dormancy that is actually occurring now, whereby the plant is slowing down. Then there is the deep sleep thing that a lot of people associate with it, where there is little discernible growth.
 
  • #16
thanks again for everyones input
biggrin.gif
... you guys have been extremely helpful
smile.gif


btw, the cilias from some of the traps on my vft are starting to turn brown so i guess my plant is starting to slow down
 
  • #17
I have to add my 2¢ on how & why I do the fridge dormancy for my VFTs.
I live in Colorado and our winters can get down to -20°F. All of my plants are in pots so there is not enough dirt to insulate the roots from a 25°f night that turns into a 45°F day. They thaw too quickly. So I leave my plants outside until I get a 3 or 4 days of freezes to allow my plants to enter dormancy slowly. If they are frozen, I let them thaw outside. Bringing them inside to thaw is a sure fire way to kill them. I know from experience. I let the media dry to where it's just moist and trim off all dead or dying leaves and traps. Then, depending on the size of pot my plants are in and if there is room in the fridge for them, I place the whole thing in a ziplock bag, pot and all. I check weekly for fungus and treat it if I find any. I do not pretreat for fungus. If you have had problems during the summer with fungus, then pretreating might be a good idea to prevent problems. I do not trim any green leaves or traps as I think they can still photosynthesize a little bit right down to freezing. See Range Plant Growth and Development Are Affected by Environmental Factors. Look in the second paragraph labled Temprature. While this study was done on grasses, I like to give my VFTs the benefit of the doubt and so I leave the leaves intact. If the pot's too big to place in the fridge or there's no room for the pot, I will remove the pot and rinse off most of the soil and towel dry the roots until they are moist but not soggy or wet and place them in a baggie. I try to eliminate as much water as possible without overdrying the roots before sealing them in the baggie to reduce condensation on the bag and discourage mold. If, when I check for fungus,I see there is enough condensation in the bag to puddle up in a corner of the bag, I pour it out and leave the bag open in the fridge for a while to air out.
 
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