Are these bugs bad for VFT??

[vraev]

Hi guys,

In my res, on the window....daily I see atleast 4 of these. they look sooo daunting. One day...I made on of them fall down...opened the window...tried to hold it with a tissue....was disgusted and let it go. I suddenly smelt a strange odor. I smelt it close and it was like a strong concentrated dose of something like acetylene or ethylene..not sure...but I know I smelt that before in a chemistry lab.

I could never find enough info on it. Finally once I got one and fed it to one of my old traps in my big B-52. It seemed to enjoy it as it is now the fastest growing plant in my setup. 4 leaves have came up since then. This was approximately 3-4 weeks ago.

Today...right now.....I noticed more of them....once again...daring ahead...I used my new foreceps to hold one's leg and put it in the trap of my typical. It close shut in 0.5 sec. however, it was too big. To avoid loosing the trap ...I put it inside the 1 and a half inch magnificent trap of my B-52 which comfortabily held it. I happened to again hold it by the abdomen this time and once again....I was hit and the whole terrarium has that strange strong smell.

Last time...that was a old trap....the trap blackened...however...it was sealed and probably the plant got some juices from the insect. I opened for a autopsy and noticed a half digested bug. Not as fully as other flies and stuff...ants are normally all gone.

Now this was my biggest trap...its like the plant produced this to just fit this insect .. do you think it is ok?? is this insect harmful to the plant?

here is the image to reveal the impressive yet daunting bug.

its kinda darker but looks like this:: size 1 inch to a inch and a half. the one I fed is an inch.

description: This sap-sucking Leaf-Footed Bug from Southern Brazil shows it's swollen femora hind legs. A few tropical Corèid have elaborate tibial leaf structures as part of their modified hind legs. This one is relatively conservative although also has spines at the tips of it's pronotum. These true bugs are capable of emitting a scent from a couple of glands on the thorax. Notice the membranous patch of the fore wing. Although most feed on sap, a few are predaceous towards other insects.

exact pic::

 

[vraev]

You wouldnt believe, I actually did research and found chemicals released by the bugs. it is mostly 6-8 carbon unsaturated alcohols like octenol or hexenol.

I can post the paper if anyone is interested. I get access to many journal papers at uni.

 

[vraev]

poop man! sorry for the swearing....the chemicals DO SEEM to affect the leaves. The closed leaf of the typical from which I removed the BUG....(The way I removed it...is with tweezers...squeezing the abdomen...which probably stimulated a great release of chemicals into the trap.)..I just saw the trap which is stil closed....after 2 hrs...and the left side i.e., the side its abdomen was facing has a brown discoloration kinda like a burn or acid release on tissue.

From the B-52...the trap seems to have sealed. I am expecting a dead trap soon.

too bad...this was my biggest trap so far. Well....if things go as before I should be rewarded with more traps though.

 

[joossa]

Hey, Vraev. First of all thanks for the great sig you made for me! =)

Ok, about your question:
The general rule of thumb is that the bug has to be roughly about 1/3 the size of the trap that is going to take it. Since you are growing in a terrarium, you must apply this rule because you are the one feeding the traps and you don't want to lose many traps because of the size of the bug.
Also the bug should not:
-be fuzzy; moths
-have a very hard exposkeleton; beetles, pill bugs, etc.
-be able to eat through the trap; certain caterpillars
I have read and found through experiance that these types of insects usually cause traps to die.
There are more general rules out there.

You also might want to consider:
1.These are plants and that they produce there own food through photosynthesis. Although a regualr feeding will make them more healthy and produce bigger traps, VFT's can go for months without catching/digesting and meal if conditions are good. So, don't stress over feeding them.
2. It is almost time for dormancy. If you are planning to put your plants through winter dormancy, then I suggest you stop feeding them. If you are reducing temps. and photoperiod for your VFTs, which you should be doing this time of year if you are growing them in a terrarium, you should start to notice signs of reduced rate of growth. In their native envionment, the plants usually don't catch insects in late fall and winter.

Here is a link with further info on feeding:
http://www.sarracenia.com/faq/faq2160.html

Good luck!

PS- I would not reccomend you feeding the bugs you are finding. Since they release chemicals, they can seriously damage your flyrtap.

 

[vraev]

yeah.....the trap in which the chemical spilled in the typical is dying

..slowly srivelling off.

the B52 is sealed though. The insect is inside. Should I pull it open and remove it

I already put 2 VFT's in the fridge for dormancy.

The 4 remaining are fresh out of TC ...so they are still growing fine. I plan on skipping dormancy for them this yr. However, whenever they show signs ...I will put them in as well.

The dentate and greendragon which I put in the fridge were both producing smaller traps at a lower rate than others. So I just removed them...washed with water....then wrapped them (bulbs) with damp sphagnum and bagged them.

I did not cut the leaves off...becos the mcmaster greenhouse person who has 10 yr old VFT's told not to do it as it promotes fungal infection through the wounds.

 

[vraev]

ps: Np...regarding the sig.

good to know more ppl.

 

[vraev]

btw...is it ok to feed VFT the red aquarium water worms that we see in many pet stores?

maybe fold it enough to fit the trap?

 

[joossa]

Hmm. I've never tried worms, so I'm not sure.

Are the worms sold alive?? Remember if the organism is not moving in the trap after initial closure, then the trap is very likely to re-open without initiating the digestion mode.

You can try to experiment to see what will happen, but if you don't want to risk losing traps then don't risk it or wait 'till someone that knows about worms posts a response.

Also, like I said before, don't stress too much about feeding your plants, instead make sure you are providing them with proper light intensity and a proper photoperiod.

 

[vraev]

yeah. I am giving them proper water. Making sure that medium is never soaking...just damp. I spray them everyday. The new 2nd light heats up enough to get temp good enough for the VFT's to close fast in less than 1 sec.

I noticed that approximatly with all other requirements aside...my VFT's are growing aat half the rate of this guy's at the uk forum. Mine have grown 6 leaves in total 1 month. His have done that in 2 weeks. But also he has double the light.

http://www.cpukforum.com/forum....2c19ee8

I guess I'll stay with what I have then. Few days ago..I randomly spotted an ant like creature probably 1.2 cm in length crawling when I sprayed my plants. it was like a jackpot...I fed it to my red dragon. it opened in 4 days and the entire thing is gone

... no exoskeleton.

. Looks like it enjoyed it.

I don;t know where it came from...haven;t seen anymore but.....if more come ...then thats good for the plants. I guess I;ll just take the opportunities as they come.

I hate those freakin stink bugs. my brand new trap for the typical which I admired so much is all wilted becos of that alcohol spray from it. I guess I am just happy it didn't kill the plant.

The B 52 hopefully should be fine. This is the last of those bugs I ever feed mhy plants. It took the first one well...apart from just loosing the trap. Today the insect is still moving its leg inside....i thought it would be suffocated...but no...its still moving. I am pretty sure...it will secrete the chemical once the plant secrets the digestive juice on it. then the browning should start

. But...if the plant gains any nutirents before the trap dies...then no problem as in course of time more traps should grow.

Thanx for taking time to help joossa.

 

[Alexis]

Contrary to popular opinion, I find that VFTs can eat enormous meals, exoskeletons, anything virtually!

Sometimes traps die whatever they're digesting. If there's plenty of air movement, they can consume large insects without any fungus ruining the trap.

I say feed it whatever you can find!

 

[vraev]

hey....its true.....in the CP world...I guess whatever works is good. I got a small millipede...I am feeding it to a VfT

lol! just did it. Kinda kewl to see. The millipede is moving inside and the trap shut tighter and tighter..

its like "The door is shut.........it was made for the dead...and the dead will keep it... "

quote modified from Lord of the rings

 

[glider14]

milipedes also give off chemicals...you know how they stink? they are chemicals and another one it makes it toxic to people.
Alex

 

[vraev]

darn! lol! its inside the trap already ...

well...I finally went to a pet store and bought 5 crickets for my 4 VFT's...varying sizes. Big ones for the b52 and small ones for the small typical and medium sized for the red dragon and another typical.

BUT....even if the millipede does make toxic stuff...only the leaf will die ...won't it

 

[glider14]

yup...tecnically each leaf is its own plant really. i heard that from jimscott i believe.
Alex

 

[vraev]

well....I guess thats better than the entire plant dying. This one especially is the "Two blade wonder" which I termed as......just becos when I got it it had only two leaves without any traps. So it was slow to make the first trap. Now it got a second and a third. The fourth is coming soon.

In the trap which I put the millepede I especially noticed 8 trigger hairs. So far I have only seen 6 in all tohers. However....this one had 8. Well....too bad....if it dies.

Crickets I guess are more NATURAL food from the VFT's habitat...isn't it??

Spent 0.70$ for 5 medium size crickets and 2 small baby crickets. If its good...then I guess I'll do this once in a month.

 

[vraev]

Is there a possibility of the millipede boring a hole through the trap

I don't mind the trap dying with it in it....but I don't want that thing in my terrarium

...I know they eat dead plant material....but peat is all dead plant material.

 

[joossa]

Quote[/b] (Alexis @ Oct. 20 2006,5:51)]Contrary to popular opinion, I find that VFTs can eat enormous meals, exoskeletons, anything virtually!

Sometimes traps die whatever they're digesting. If there's plenty of air movement, they can consume large insects without any fungus ruining the trap.

I say feed it whatever you can find!

True. Very true... BUT, you are overlooking the fact that vraev is growing his CP's in a terrarium and like I mentioned in my previous post, The general rule of thumb is that the bug has to be roughly about 1/3 the size of the trap that is going to take it. Since you are growing in a terrarium, you must apply this rule because you are the one feeding the traps and you don't want to lose many traps because of the size of the bug.

In other words, since he has control of what he is feeding his VFT's why not just feed it small insects that are not likely to kill the trap?

In the wild anything goes, but if one is growing a terrarium, he/she will most likely want the plants inside to look healthy and appealing to him/herself and to visitors the grower might have over (one aspect of having a terrarium is to show it off).

IMO, if someone has control over what his/her VFT will eat, it is always better to play it safe and go with the smallest, least risky insects possible.

 

[vraev]

yeah....I agree.....However, its kinda hard I guesss to catch the small insects. hence a pet store is the best way of getting them. even though its pricey...I guess 70 cents for food for around a month for few CP's is not bad...consideering a bus ride back home is around 8$.

Btw....a little OT...but I bought something today....a new dentate VFT and it looks like a saraccenia...



Tell me if these aren't the most light deprived surviving plants

Got them from rona lansing across the street. They had a new shipment coming next week...But I won't be here...so I jumped for the last sickly plants. She gave me 25% off on them.

What is that pitcher plant. It looks like a sarracenia...even though colsanti labelled it as a cobra plant. It looks like an intensely light deprived pitcher plant.

What do u guys think??

 

[joossa]

Hey, you got some good finds!

I have never researched Pitcher plants in detail, so I can't name what the cultivar is. What I can tell you is that if that is supposed to be a pitcher plant then, WOW... definitly light deprived!!!! The VFT also looks pertty bad.

Change their potting mix and replant them, they'll probably come back strong in the spring after dormancy.

Good luck with them!!

 

[vraev]

Thanx joosa. yeah...can't wait to get back with my crickets and new plants. I will remove them from the pots....wash them with distilled water and then plant them in.