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Thread: Akai Ryu sensitivity...

  1. #9
    Moderator Alexis's Avatar
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    What's typical though?

    I've never seen Akai Ryu grow 'large' traps personally however.

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    Aklys joossa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alexis View Post
    What's typical though?
    I get your point, but then again you get mine so
    -Joel from Southern California


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    N=R* fs fp ne fl fi fc L Pyro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vraev View Post
    I did notice that it grows a bit slower. I guess it depends on the clone from which our plants orginated from.
    Akai Ryu is a cultivar and all plants are clones off of one original plant. There are not varioius clones, only the one.

    I have never noticed AKai to be any different in growth from typical. Mine attain the same size and grow just as, if not more, vigourously as they typicals. Of course I have mine in a bog garden so perhapse that makes some difference...
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  4. #12
    RL7836's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pyro View Post
    Akai Ryu is a cultivar and all plants are clones off of one original plant. There are not varioius clones, only the one.

    I have never noticed AKai to be any different in growth from typical. Mine attain the same size and grow just as, if not more, vigourously as they typicals. Of course I have mine in a bog garden so perhapse that makes some difference...
    My experience growing this clone is the same as Pyro. Actually only 2 clones come to mind that have not grown robustly for me: Wacky & Red Pirahna. Wacky is just a sickly little beast (congrats to all who grow it well). Red Pirahna seems to be slightly less robust than most of my other plants - it grows - just not as wildly as the others....

    While I also agree on the one AR clone, I think there are some possibilities for differentiation that have taken place:

    1) as with any widely distributed plant. Some people are probably growing AR 1st generation plants (or 2nd, 3rd) and still calling them AR
    1A) I suspect that many red plants end up w/ the label AR / Red Dragon if someone is unsure of their pedigree
    2) diffeerentiation may occur as part of the T/C process itself. I believe 'Fused tooth' and several other mutations are a result of T/C. Who's to say that less-obvious mutations don't occur as part of this process?
    2A) I believe Bob Z has an AR variant that has red stigmas ....
    All the best,
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pyro View Post
    Akai Ryu is a cultivar and all plants are clones off of one original plant. There are not varioius clones, only the one.
    Agreed, there is one and only one true Akai Ryu clone. However, as Ron points out, there are many plants being circulated as Akai Ryu that clearly are not the original TC plant. I have been interested in VFTs for many decades. I have collected plants from numerous growers and always retain the name of the plant as received. I grow them side-by-side under virtually identical conditions. I have been amazed by the variability of some of the plants having the same name. Akai Ryu is the most variable and I have come to conclude that this cultivar has become so confused that few people actually know what they have anymore.

    The cultivar naming rules are a big part of the problem. Unless explicitly stated that the plant must be reproduced vegetatively (cloned), the rules allow someone to call an unknown plant by the cultivar name, if it looks like the named cultivar and meets the official published description in all respects. Who determines this? You do, of course.

    Read the official published description of Akai Ryu
    http://www.carnivorousplants.org/cpn.../v25n2p50.html

    Now, how would you know whether the all-red VFT that someone sent is actually Akai Ryu? Further, suppose you self-pollinate your Akai Ryu and produce hundreds of little red seedlings. Do you call them Akai Ryu? If, as adults, they look like the parent, the rules allow this. But, we all know that seed produced plants are not genetically identical to the parent. Hence, the problem.

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    Moderator Alexis's Avatar
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    Good points Bob. I've noticed plants like "Red Burgundy" appearing and I've no idea where they've come from. Likewise, 'Royal Red' and 'Clayton's Volcanic Red' are the same plant, at least in my collection.

    There are a number of 'Red Piranha' plants around as well. I think the original is a little weaker. I've had my plant for 4 years and it's been the same size every summer!



    Whereas I've seen some monster examples of this plant over the last year or so which seem to be more rosetted in growth habit.

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    BobZ's Avatar
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    Alexis, perhaps the "original" 'Red Piranha' was more robust.

    I received a bunch of 'Jaws' plants last summer direct from tissue culture. They were in a relatively undifferentiated mass and still covered in jell. I washed off the jell and planted them in sphagnum peat. Nearly all survived. Now, after about 6 months, and having been in an unheated greenhouse all winter, all are still tiny (about 10 mm rosettes). However, one plant started growing wildly and is now about a 75 mm rosette. All from the same TC batch. I do not understand TC "genetics". I thought all plants were exact clones. What is going on? I read that 'Red Dragon' was selected from TC during "amplification" -- whatever that is. So, from TC, are there occasional "superior" individuals that emerge, or are the rank and file mostly duds?

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    Bob,

    I had the same question when I got my first batch of tc Dionaea from Agri-Starts III (years ago). Mike R. told me occasionally an odd plant or flat of plants turns up. Variagated forms of Nepenthes and Pinguicula or other unusual aspects show up. I was impressed to look at his production greenhouse and see the variety in the thousands of plants that should (I thought) all be uniform in growth and form. Workers are constantly grading and moving plants around so that all plants in each flat are at least the same size. Some flats "crash" from fungus, or other problems, with only one or two or ten... plants surviving. These survivors are then moved into flats of plants that are similar in size (not always age or vigor). When large production operations are working with the number of plants businesses like Agri-Starts III, a certain number of unusual (freak) plants get released just to fill each order. Most probably die on the store shelves without even being noticed or are purchased by first time growers. A very few are selected by growers/ finishers or retail buyers with an eye for the unusual, and set aside for other collectors and then possible cultivar registration.

    Steve

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