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Thread: My first VFT. Some questions. [PICS]

  1. #9
    scottychaos's Avatar
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    Just because its on the internet, doesnt mean its right!

    fish shouldnt be in goldfish bowls either..
    If animal cruelty laws applied to fish (which they dont) goldfish bowls would be illegal..
    but I digress..

    Copied from my webpage about why I dont like VFTs or sarracenia in terrariums:

    In my opinion, VFT's and Sarracenia should never be grown indoors or especially in terrariums..
    the climate inside a terrarium is just all-wrong for them..
    the climate is fine for a few months...but VFTs and Sarrs need very different climates at different times of year..

    Keeping VFTs and Sarrs in a terrarum is the same as trying to grow maple tree bonsai in a terrarium..
    you can replicate June - August ok in a terrarium..sunny and warm..but what about the other 9 months of the year?

    Maple trees need a gradually warming spring to come out of dormancy, a gradually warmer and sunnier summer, a gradually cooler and darker autumn, then a cold and dark winter to be fully dormant.

    ...cycle repeats...

    so do VFTs and Sarracenia.
    its not an option..its a necessity.

    If you grow a maple tree indoors it will die within a year...the non-changing environment of a terrarium will also eventually kill a VFT.

    VFTs need it warm and REALLY sunny in the summer..DIRECT sunlight..
    where can you find that? outdoors in the summer!
    Nature provides the perfect light for free..
    then you need gradually decreasing photoperiod and gradually decreasing temps from summer into autumn..
    where can you find that? outdoors..again nature does all the work for us.

    The only tricky season for those of us in the Northern states is the winter..Spring, Summer and Autumn are a breeze..just keep the plants outdoors April - October.
    but the plants need a COOL winter..the winter of South Carolina..
    but winters in the northern states are too severe and will kill them if the plants are left outdoors..

    If you have a cool basement or attic, or a garage that stays in the 40's (4-10C) all winter, thats fine for dormancy..or ideally, if you live in the southern US where winters are mild, just leave your plants outside 24/7/365!

    http://gold.mylargescale.com/scottychaos/cp/

    Scot

  2. #10
    The Consuming Flame EdaxFlamma's Avatar
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    No the peat doesn't have sphagnum spores in it but the moss that will pop up in it naturally you know will definitely be ok for the VFT.

    Very nice Scotty!

  3. #11
    scottychaos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eugene View Post
    Hehe. Thanks for the info. Appreciate it!

    So, you mean that peat already has sphagnum moss spores
    peat IS spagnum moss..its just fully broken down by time. (hundreds to thousands of years of time)

    spagnum moss, or "long fibered spagnum moss" "LFS" as it is also known, is "fresh" peat..sometimes even living moss.
    it usually comes in bales of dried/dead moss though..
    the dried/dead moss will often sprout new live moss if conditions are good.
    you can often get living moss spores from spagnum, but not likely from peat..
    peat is "mined" like coal..from deposits deep under the surface.

    a typical peat bog will have living spagnum moss on top, some dead spagnum below,
    then the actual peat is the decayed spagnum far below the surface..

    spagnum moss = very young peat.
    peat moss = very old spagnum moss.

    the characteristics are very different..
    peat is very fine and powdery when dry..it will blow away in the wind like dust.
    when wet it makes a thick goopy "soil"..thats peat.

    spagnum is coarse and ropy..you can see the individual strands.
    VFTs and sarracenia grow fine in either.

    I like to use peat for the main "mass" of a pot, then put a thin layer of spagnum on top to keep the rain from splashing the peat and making a muddy mess.
    spagnum is not messy when rained on, or watered...

    Scot

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    Excellent looking first VFT. I'm hoping my first VFTs look as good as that. (Hint to Andy)

    Keep us posted on how it's doing

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    Thanks for the replies guys.

    Just because its on the internet, doesnt mean its right!

    fish shouldnt be in goldfish bowls either..
    If animal cruelty laws applied to fish (which they dont) goldfish bowls would be illegal..
    but I digress..

    Copied from my webpage about why I dont like VFTs or sarracenia in terrariums:

    In my opinion, VFT's and Sarracenia should never be grown indoors or especially in terrariums..
    the climate inside a terrarium is just all-wrong for them..
    the climate is fine for a few months...but VFTs and Sarrs need very different climates at different times of year..

    Keeping VFTs and Sarrs in a terrarum is the same as trying to grow maple tree bonsai in a terrarium..
    you can replicate June - August ok in a terrarium..sunny and warm..but what about the other 9 months of the year?

    Maple trees need a gradually warming spring to come out of dormancy, a gradually warmer and sunnier summer, a gradually cooler and darker autumn, then a cold and dark winter to be fully dormant.

    ...cycle repeats...

    so do VFTs and Sarracenia.
    its not an option..its a necessity.

    If you grow a maple tree indoors it will die within a year...the non-changing environment of a terrarium will also eventually kill a VFT.

    VFTs need it warm and REALLY sunny in the summer..DIRECT sunlight..
    where can you find that? outdoors in the summer!
    Nature provides the perfect light for free..
    then you need gradually decreasing photoperiod and gradually decreasing temps from summer into autumn..
    where can you find that? outdoors..again nature does all the work for us.

    The only tricky season for those of us in the Northern states is the winter..Spring, Summer and Autumn are a breeze..just keep the plants outdoors April - October.
    but the plants need a COOL winter..the winter of South Carolina..
    but winters in the northern states are too severe and will kill them if the plants are left outdoors..

    If you have a cool basement or attic, or a garage that stays in the 40's (4-10C) all winter, thats fine for dormancy..or ideally, if you live in the southern US where winters are mild, just leave your plants outside 24/7/365!

    http://gold.mylargescale.com/scottychaos/cp/

    Scot
    As i already told you guys, that the climate here is WAY colder than the normal VFT habitat i.e. last summer we only got 10 days of WARM sun! Guess, what, the other 11 months are almost cold as hell! So VFT here, outdoor is a no-no. They would simple not survive.
    40's (4-10C)
    Thats like 9 months here.
    Of course i would consider direct, warm, sunlight when it is availabe.

    Im going to repot in back to a normal container, and get rid of the moss i already have in the near future.

    Thanks for the help guys! I really appreciate it!

    P.S.
    http://www.sarracenia.com/faq.html
    This is much better quality reading.
    Acctualy this resource also states that VFT need WARM and HUMID conditions (sun also of course), and it also says as long as i can provide those conditions in a terrarium, VFT will be fine .

  6. #14
    scottychaos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eugene View Post
    P.S. Acctualy this resource also states that VFT need WARM and HUMID conditions (sun also of course), and it also says as long as i can provide those conditions in a terrarium, VFT will be fine .
    well..
    but it doesnt say it will be fine in a terrarium forever..
    and a few pages later, it does then go on to talk about dormancy in detail:

    http://www.sarracenia.com/faq/faq2360.html

    Quote Originally Posted by Eugene View Post
    Thanks for the replies guys.


    As i already told you guys, that the climate here is WAY colder than the normal VFT habitat i.e. last summer we only got 10 days of WARM sun! Guess, what, the other 11 months are almost cold as hell! So VFT here, outdoor is a no-no. They would simple not survive.
    Thats like 9 months here.
    Of course i would consider direct, warm, sunlight when it is availabe.
    wow! thats quite the climate you have!
    (and I thought Rochester had bad winters!

    where exactly are you Eugene?
    did I hear you say Siberia??

    hmmm..well, your conditions do present a unique problem..
    but a terrarium is still a bad idea..no matter where you live,
    because a terrarium cant give the proper dormancy cues.

    how about this for an idea:

    starting now, put your plant in a bright window indoors..where you can give it the most direct light possible.
    then, when your short "growing season" does arrive, put the plant outdoors..
    keep it outdoors until it starts to fall below freezing again.
    even if thats only 2 months, it might be enough time to give the plant the proper decreasing temp and decreasing photoperiod cues for it to enter dormancy.
    then put the plant in the fridge for 4 months.
    after 4 months, take it out and put it back in the window.
    then put it back outdoors for the "summer" again..
    cycle repeats..

    perhaps some kind of small greenhouse could help..
    increase the outdoor growing season by a month in both directions.

    I suppose in theory it would be possible to replicate seasons inside a terrarium..
    but it would be complicated and expensive..
    altering photoperiod is easy enough, just change the timer once a week, gradually decreasing the light.
    but replicating decreasing temps is the real problem..
    you almost need some kind of refrigeration unit..
    hard to do indoors..
    the problem with a terrarium or just keeping a VFT indoors all year is that humans
    like to keep their indoor climate very stable..
    the typical house stays about 70 degrees inside every single day of the year.
    its its a little below that, we add heat.
    if its too much above that, we add air conditioning.
    VFTs dont want that..that is very bad for them.
    they want a low of 40F (4C) in January, then a gradual increase for 6 months up to 90F (33C) in July, then a gradual decrease for 6 months back down again to 40 in January again..humans simply dont do that indoors...
    we have an indoor range from about 60 to 80 (15-27C)..thats it.


    hmmmm..
    another option.
    You could solve once and for all the "decreasing photoperiod is more important than decreasing temps" debate!
    personally, I dont believe it...I think you have to have both for a proper dormancy.
    (decreasing light and decreasing temps from summer into winter)

    but you could be a test case!

    grow VFTs on a windowsill...indoors...every single day of the year.
    give them no artificial light at all.
    only natural sunlight through the window.
    this way, the plants will naturally get the decreasing and increasing photoperiods throughout the year..same as if they were outdoors..
    they will get very little sunlight in the winter..(even zero sunlight for a few weeks if you are above the arctic circle!) then the most sunlight in the summer..
    if the windowsill gets some cooler temps in the winter, so much the better.

    the naturally increasing and decreasing photoperiod, from the sunlight it gets through the window,
    will "set the plants clock" and keep it in tune with the seasons..
    it should naturally go dormant every winter, by itself, even if the indoor temps are a little bit too high.

    IMO, that is probably your best-bet for trying to grow VFTs or Sarracenia..
    it could work!

    Scot

  7. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by scottychaos View Post
    well..
    but it doesnt say it will be fine in a terrarium forever..
    and a few pages later, it does then go on to talk about dormancy in detail:

    http://www.sarracenia.com/faq/faq2360.html



    wow! thats quite the climate you have!
    (and I thought Rochester had bad winters!

    where exactly are you Eugene?
    did I hear you say Siberia??

    hmmm..well, your conditions do present a unique problem..
    but a terrarium is still a bad idea..no matter where you live,
    because a terrarium cant give the proper dormancy cues.

    how about this for an idea:

    starting now, put your plant in a bright window indoors..where you can give it the most direct light possible.
    then, when your short "growing season" does arrive, put the plant outdoors..
    keep it outdoors until it starts to fall below freezing again.
    even if thats only 2 months, it might be enough time to give the plant the proper decreasing temp and decreasing photoperiod cues for it to enter dormancy.
    then put the plant in the fridge for 4 months.
    after 4 months, take it out and put it back in the window.
    then put it back outdoors for the "summer" again..
    cycle repeats..

    perhaps some kind of small greenhouse could help..
    increase the outdoor growing season by a month in both directions.

    I suppose in theory it would be possible to replicate seasons inside a terrarium..
    but it would be complicated and expensive..
    altering photoperiod is easy enough, just change the timer once a week, gradually decreasing the light.
    but replicating decreasing temps is the real problem..
    you almost need some kind of refrigeration unit..
    hard to do indoors..
    the problem with a terrarium or just keeping a VFT indoors all year is that humans
    like to keep their indoor climate very stable..
    the typical house stays about 70 degrees inside every single day of the year.
    its its a little below that, we add heat.
    if its too much above that, we add air conditioning.
    VFTs dont want that..that is very bad for them.
    they want a low of 40F (4C) in January, then a gradual increase for 6 months up to 90F (33C) in July, then a gradual decrease for 6 months back down again to 40 in January again..humans simply dont do that indoors...
    we have an indoor range from about 60 to 80 (15-27C)..thats it.


    hmmmm..
    another option.
    You could solve once and for all the "decreasing photoperiod is more important than decreasing temps" debate!
    personally, I dont believe it...I think you have to have both for a proper dormancy.
    (decreasing light and decreasing temps from summer into winter)

    but you could be a test case!

    grow VFTs on a windowsill...indoors...every single day of the year.
    give them no artificial light at all.
    only natural sunlight through the window.
    this way, the plants will naturally get the decreasing and increasing photoperiods throughout the year..same as if they were outdoors..
    they will get very little sunlight in the winter..(even zero sunlight for a few weeks if you are above the arctic circle!) then the most sunlight in the summer..
    if the windowsill gets some cooler temps in the winter, so much the better.

    the naturally increasing and decreasing photoperiod, from the sunlight it gets through the window,
    will "set the plants clock" and keep it in tune with the seasons..
    it should naturally go dormant every winter, by itself, even if the indoor temps are a little bit too high.

    IMO, that is probably your best-bet for trying to grow VFTs or Sarracenia..
    it could work!

    Scot
    Wow... thanks! Lots of food for the brain

  8. #16
    Stay chooned in for more! Clint's Avatar
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    Where do you live exactly? What state/province/whatever?

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