User Tag List

Informational! Informational!:  0
Likes Likes:  0
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 9 to 16 of 20

Thread: New to VFT's

  1. #9
    mmlr38's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Ashland, OR
    Posts
    555
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by jimscott View Post
    Follow Scottychaos' advice, as it is the most comprehensive.
    I agree that Scottychaos' advice is the most comprehensive, but I don't agree that it is the best or the advice that should be followed. I do agree with most of what Scotty wrote, but there are a few things that really stand out that I don't agree with.

    Quote Originally Posted by scottychaos View Post
    put the pot of seeds outdoors..right now..
    they wont "freeze to death"..in fact, they NEED to be outside in the winter!
    its good for them..keeping them indoors virtually guarantees their death..
    If you properly store the seeds, they can last for a long time. One good way to store them without any special equipment is to wrap them in wax paper, put them in a sealed plastic bag (like a Ziploc) and put them in the fridge. This should keep them mostly viable until springtime.

    However, it is probably best to sow them right now. Seedlings can miss their first dormancy without incident, so if you have a place to sow them where you can keep them fairly warm, moist and give them a decently long photoperiod (between 12 and 16 hours) everyday, you should do that. Right now I have what appears to be over a thousand seedlings in my terrarium. Some I sowed in March, some were sowed in July and August. I am planning on leaving them in the terrarium all winter with a 16 hour photoperiod and then putting them outdoors in the spring time. This will give me something to watch grow over the winter, when the rest of my VFTs and Sarracenia are dormant.

    Quote Originally Posted by scottychaos View Post
    SO much more rewarding than seeds!
    This is a matter of opinion, and I don't agree. It does take a long time to raise VFTs from seeds, but for me, this actually makes the whole process more rewarding than just buying a full grown one. I too would suggest to get a full grown one to care for and enjoy, but not because it is more rewarding.

    Quote Originally Posted by scottychaos View Post
    which is much more rewarding than watching anemic seedlings slowly die under weak artificial light indoors in the winter..which is "doing it wrong" in every respect..
    I know of a few very reputable growers that grow many of their VFTs indoors under artificial lights (Barry Rice of http://www.sarracenia.com comes to mind). I too have experimented with growing VFTs under artificial lights and have had success. In fact, I haven't been able to replicate the deep red coloration I got from my VFTs under artificial lights when growing them outdoors. I don't think there is a "wrong" way to grow VFTs. It's true that in general VFTs don't make good terrarium pets and should be grown outside whenever possible. However, I have had way more success starting seedlings in a terrarium than starting them outside. They make the adjustment to moving outside in the spring well if you gradually introduce them to sun and lower humidity. Also, I like the idea of having something to watch grow during the winter.

    Everything else that Scotty wrote I agree with. I just wanted to point out some differences in my personal opinion and growing experiences with lights and seedlings. I say go for it with the seeds if you have any interest in it. It is a long, slow process that could take up to 5 years to have an adult plant, but you will learn a lot. And, if you are anything like me, you will feel great satisfaction in knowing that you raised them from seedlings. The plants that I have owned in the past that meant the most to me, I have raised from seeds.

    Hope this helps,
    Matt

  2. #10
    scottychaos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Western New York, USA
    Posts
    2,970
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Matt,
    no problem!
    I dont mind if anyone disagrees!

    now in return, I have one problem with your post!

    I know of a few very reputable growers that grow many of their VFTs indoors under artificial lights (Barry Rice of http://www.sarracenia.com comes to mind). I too have experimented with growing VFTs under artificial lights and have had success.
    the fact that Barry Rice has mentioned he has grown VFTs indoors under lights has been taken WAY out of context many times..and it is often incorrectly used as "evidence" that its ok to grow VFTs indoors..

    its not ok..

    and Barry Rice grows VFTs indoors under lights for *short periods of time*..
    a few months at a time.

    and he also says this about dormancy:
    http://www.sarracenia.com/faq/faq2360.html

    and you cant give your plants the proper dormancy cues if they are growing indoors under lights..
    sorry, but I will (apparently) fight this for the rest of my life!
    given two options, it is ALWAYS better to grow your VFTs outdoors..
    IMO, VFTs should never be grown indoors..period..
    there is no reason for it, and its bad for the plants..

    if you dont have any space for outdoor growing right now, because you are a college student or live in an apartment building or something..then dont grow VFTs or Sarracenia..because you arent properly equipped to take care of them..grow D. capensis and Nepenthes instead.

    I too have experimented with growing VFTs under artificial lights and have had success.
    For how long?
    whats the maximum time you have had them growing indoors?
    how do you define "success"?
    and what do you do about dormancy?

    Scot

  3. #11
    Tropical Fish Enthusiast jimscott's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Western New York
    Posts
    18,768
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    About all I'll do with VFT's and indoors is this:





    I also start Ceph leaves, D. binata leaves, and D. filfiormis leaves. When they sprout I take the VFT's and sundews outside for the growing season, into the fall.

  4. #12
    "Oh, now he's a philosophizer" Baylorguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Helotes, Texas
    Posts
    933
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Scotty -

    Let me ask you if this will work (in theory). I live in San Antonio, Texas, so winters aren't too bad, but cold enough for dormancy. I have grown my typical and B52 under strong growlights for the growing season with great success, and they have grown vigorously. I just moved both of them outside on my patio for dormancy and plan on leaving them there until March.

    My questions are... first of all, will this be plausible, as it is allowing them to wind down and have an actual dormancy... and two, we are starting to get more overcast days, which means they will rarely get direct sunlight. I understand sparking dormancy deals with shortening the photoperiod (which I am doing) and reducing temperatures(which I am doing)... so is lack of sunlight for a few months enough to kill my flytrap, or is this essentially the order of things?

    Ok, I promise, last question! I have a couple of random dews from stray seed that got in there (mainly D. spatulata 'Frasier Island' and D. brevifolia)... do you think these will survive as well?

    If all goes according to plan, I will bring them back indoors in March. I would keep them outdoors, but I am in an apartment and the patio doesn't get too much direct light.

    Thanks for your time!

  5. #13
    scottychaos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Western New York, USA
    Posts
    2,970
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Baylorguy View Post
    Scotty -

    Let me ask you if this will work (in theory). I live in San Antonio, Texas, so winters aren't too bad, but cold enough for dormancy. I have grown my typical and B52 under strong growlights for the growing season with great success, and they have grown vigorously. I just moved both of them outside on my patio for dormancy and plan on leaving them there until March.

    My questions are... first of all, will this be plausible, as it is allowing them to wind down and have an actual dormancy... and two, we are starting to get more overcast days, which means they will rarely get direct sunlight. I understand sparking dormancy deals with shortening the photoperiod (which I am doing) and reducing temperatures(which I am doing)... so is lack of sunlight for a few months enough to kill my flytrap, or is this essentially the order of things?

    Ok, I promise, last question! I have a couple of random dews from stray seed that got in there (mainly D. spatulata 'Frasier Island' and D. brevifolia)... do you think these will survive as well?

    If all goes according to plan, I will bring them back indoors in March. I would keep them outdoors, but I am in an apartment and the patio doesn't get too much direct light.

    Thanks for your time!
    yeah, thats not too bad..
    IMO they should go outside earlier though to get proper decreasing photoperiod and decreasing temp cues..like July..but what you are doing should work fine!
    mid-September isnt too bad..

    I wouldnt worry about direct sun during the winter..
    the plants should be barely growing, or ideally not growing at all,
    so light isnt a huge issue during dormancy.

    I dont know anything about those particular sundews..never grown them.
    but some quick googling brought up:

    Fraser Island is Queensland, Australia..
    looks like USDA zone 9 or 10..looks very warm!
    are you sure it even needs a dormancy?

    Since you are zone 9, and the plant is from zone 9, it would probably be fine outdoors all winter...
    although in this case, the zone doesnt tell you everything!
    especially when dealing with different continents..
    the zone number only tells you temp, nothing else....
    Zone 9 in Texas might be very different, in overall climate, from zone 9 on the east coast of Australia..

    does this plant go dormant during a hot dry Australian summer?
    as opposed to dormancy during a cool damp North American winter? (like VFTs and Sarrs)
    perhaps..I dont know..
    something to look into!

    Sundews have all kinds of different dormancy requirements!
    since they are found all over the world..


    Scot

  6. #14
    "Oh, now he's a philosophizer" Baylorguy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Helotes, Texas
    Posts
    933
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Thanks Scot -

    Looks like I'll need to move them to other pots or give them away... they are growing like weeds for me. It's encouraging to hear this dormancy setup should work just fine... call me crazy, but throwing them in the fridge didn't sound to appealing for the plants!

  7. #15
    scottychaos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Western New York, USA
    Posts
    2,970
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Baylorguy View Post
    Thanks Scot -

    Looks like I'll need to move them to other pots or give them away... they are growing like weeds for me. It's encouraging to hear this dormancy setup should work just fine... call me crazy, but throwing them in the fridge didn't sound to appealing for the plants!
    yeah, the fridge should only be used as a last resort..if you have no other options!
    for those us in the north, its necessary..(or someplace with similar temps to the fridge)

    but where you are, you certaintly dont need to use the fridge!
    outdoors is a much better option for you..


    Scot

  8. #16
    mmlr38's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Ashland, OR
    Posts
    555
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Thanks for the reply Scot. I love discussing different growing techniques.
    Quote Originally Posted by scottychaos View Post
    the fact that Barry Rice has mentioned he has grown VFTs indoors under lights has been taken WAY out of context many times..and it is often incorrectly used as "evidence" that its ok to grow VFTs indoors..
    Yeah, I am aware that Barry grows his plants indoors part of the year and outdoors part of the year. If I remember correctly, he allows his plants to go into dormancy outdoors. He discusses his lighting setup here and here. I think somewhere in that thread he also talks about when he moves his plants out of the artificial light.

    Quote Originally Posted by scottychaos View Post
    and you cant give your plants the proper dormancy cues if they are growing indoors under lights..
    Why not? I haven't heard of anyone doing this, but if you can shorten the photoperiod and drop the temperature, there isn't any reason you shouldn't be able to.

    Quote Originally Posted by scottychaos View Post
    given two options, it is ALWAYS better to grow your VFTs outdoors..
    I 100% agree!

    Quote Originally Posted by scottychaos View Post
    IMO, VFTs should never be grown indoors..period..
    there is no reason for it, and its bad for the plants..
    I can think of a few good reasons for growing VFTs indoors. If you are starting leaf pullings or seedlings, I think it's best to start them indoors. Or if you want to have something to watch grow in the winter, you can't do that outdoors. I took about 6 of my plants and put them in the terrarium I built in March. I watched them grow beautifully until about June, then moved them outside. It was nice to be able to see the beautiful plants when the rest of my plants looked basically dead (due to dormancy).

    I will argue that it's not only acceptable, but it's BETTER to start leaf pullings and seeds in a terrarium. I have done both inside, in a terrarium, and outside. The pullings and seedlings grew faster and looked healthier grown inside. Once they are large enough that they aren't as susceptible to the elements (basically after skipping one dormancy), I will move them outside in the spring.

    Quote Originally Posted by scottychaos View Post
    For how long? whats the maximum time you have had them growing indoors?
    I have only left full grown plants in the terrarium for a few months at a time. I have read on other forums of people leaving VFTs in terrariums for over 2 year (even skipping dormancy). Personally, I have seedlings that I planted in March that will stay in the terrarium until next April. Right now, they look great. A couple of them are actually pretty large already (about the size of a quarter). I think they have grown faster than the others because they have caught a few more fungus gnats.

    Quote Originally Posted by scottychaos View Post
    how do you define "success"?
    A healthy plant.

    Quote Originally Posted by scottychaos View Post
    and what do you do about dormancy?
    For the seedlings, skip it. For the other plants, I move them to my unheated south facing porch.

    Scot, have you ever tried growing a VFT in a terrarium? Have you ever grown VFTs from seeds? I have seen other posts where you recommend against growing VFTs from seed. Did you have a bad experience with it?

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •