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Thread: Cultivar question & here's why

  1. #9
    Brokken's Avatar
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    Some cultivars breed true. Not everything is propagated vegetatively. Take S. leucophylla "Hurricane Creek" for example. It's a strain of leuco with a very white top with little to no visible red veining. These characteristics have become fixed within the population and the seeds from this strain will resemble the parents.
    "There is no pain as great as being alive,
    no burden heavier than that of conscious life. "
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    mmlr38's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xvart View Post
    Personally, I think the whole cultivar issue (especially with regard to Dionaea) is ludicrous. In my opinion, no plant should bear the cultivar name and status unless it is a direct vegetative propagation from the originally described plant. With Dionaea cultivars that are described mostly (if not all) on exceptionally large trap size one can see how problematic the lackluster description can be when trap size is so variable to begin with.
    I totally agree with this.
    Quote Originally Posted by xvart View Post
    The only other described description I can think of is Sarracenia 'Hurricane Creek White'. Any plant from this population or reproduced from Sarracenia leucophylla from the population and display the characteristics is considered to be a cultivar of that name; specifically stated: In order to maintain this cultivar’s unique hardiness, color, and size characters, do not attach the cultivar name to any seedlings that do not show the large white pitchers of this Sarracenia leucophylla cultivar.
    Another carnivorous plant example is Darlingtonia californica 'Othello'.

    Quoted from here: http://www.carnivorousplants.org/cpn...7n2p40_42.html
    As such, this cultivar may be propagated by seed as long as the resulting plants also lack anthocyanin.
    Quote Originally Posted by Brokken View Post
    Some cultivars breed true. Not everything is propagated vegetatively. Take S. leucophylla "Hurricane Creek" for example. It's a strain of leuco with a very white top with little to no visible red veining. These characteristics have become fixed within the population and the seeds from this strain will resemble the parents.
    Since this topic was posted in the Dionaea forum, I assumed that we were only talking about Dionaea cultivars. I was aware that there are cultivars in other species, including S. luecophylla "Hurricane Creek White" and Darlingtonia Californica Othello, that are true to type through seed. There may be a few other carnivorous plant cultivars that are as well. And I'm sure that there are plenty of other cultivars that aren't carnivorous plants that can be sexually propagated and remain true to type.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultiva..._of_a_cultivar

  3. #11
    Moderator Alexis's Avatar
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    Some cultivars breed true. Not everything is propagated vegetatively. Take S. leucophylla "Hurricane Creek" for example. It's a strain of leuco with a very white top with little to no visible red veining. These characteristics have become fixed within the population and the seeds from this strain will resemble the parents.
    Define 'resemble' though. Out of a batch of seedlings some will be whiter than others. Some may have none or little red veining. The shapes and growth habit may be slightly different etc. etc.

  4. #12
    BobZ's Avatar
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    One serious problem in the "if it looks like the cultivar, it is the cutivar" approach is that many, if not most, of the cultivar descriptions are so vague that such a comparison is virtually impossible. In some cases there is not even a photograph to compare.

    The classic example of the how messed up things can get is the example of Dionaea 'Akai Ryu' (aka 'Red Dragon'). Here is the official description:
    "Growth habit and flower morphology are typical for this species. The leaf petiole, blade and trap exhibit dark maroon to burgundy coloration. Any green coloration has only been noted around the center of the plant in mid-winter. The entire trap, interior and exterior, exhibits dark burgundy coloration throughout the year. Grown under laboratory conditions, where nutrient levels can be comparatively high, the plants still exhibit partial burgundy coloration in the traps and leaf blade."
    http://www.carnivorousplants.org/cpn.../v25n2p50.html

    It is widely reported that 'Red Dragon' was originally specifically selected from a number of tissue culture candidates because of its exceptional coloration and large size. Over the years, because their plants looked like the description, many growers began to name and distribute their dark red seedlings and plants as 'Akai Ryu'. This has resulted in a lot of complaints that 'Red Dragon' is not a particularly impressive plant. Unless your plant has a direct pedigree from the original Agristarts III source, it is unknown what plant you actually have. To complicate matters, there are well-known tissue culture anomalies (sports) that are are caused by some genetic "mistake" during cell division -- resulting in a different looking plant (for example, 'Wacky Traps').

    Some of the 'Red Dragon' plants in circulation certainly cannot be said to have exceptionally large size. An extreme example is my cultivar 'Petite Dragon', a plant that was marketed as 'Red Dragon'.
    http://www.carnivorousplants.org/cpn...6n2p53_56.html

  5. #13
    I've got a magic window! elgecko's Avatar
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    I agree totally with BobZ.

    If you got the plant from someone not knowing the true genetics of it, do not call it something just because it looks like a cultivar.
    It seems like so many people get a VFT from a garden center, or some other source without any label, and it has to be something other then a typical when it looks nice.

    I have some seed grown VFT's that look similar and nicer then some of the cultivars out there, guess what... it's just a typical.


    My Grow List Updated 8/24/17

  6. #14
    Doing it wrong until I do it right. xvart's Avatar
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    BobZ hit the nail on the head, and more well spoken than I did. If I ever described a plant for cultivar status it sure would have a beastly description, and would be so long and tedious that it would be a chore to read.

    xvart.
    "The tragedy of life is not that every man loses; but that he almost wins."

    "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"

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