can any one help

[J-rod]

Hi every one I have a question what’s the best way to bring back plants that are almost dead because of mineral burns?
I’m guessing it’s mineral burns. I had a few plants in 50% peat, 30% sand, and 20% perlite. These plants grow fine. But I used all my mix. So I used 100% long fibered sphagnum moss. On my remainder plants This pants grow ok at first then the new growth got smaller and smaller. With some of the new growth having black tips on the leaves like if the sun had burned them. Or deformed leaves that never opened or opened very little with no teeth on them. Can any one help me or give me some advice of how to help my plants grow strange.
Why would 100% long fibered sphagnum moss do this or is there a specific way to prepare the moss?


I used distilled water only, I water the plants with a tray, and had them under growing lights.

Thank you for reading.

 

[amphirion]

Hi every one I have a question what’s the best way to bring back plants that are almost dead because of mineral burns?

Easiest way: repot. If you don't have new medium to pot--flush the pot out with lots and lots of dH2O.

So I used 100% long fibered sphagnum moss.

That will work for a while. Throw in a little perlite into the mix. Keep in mind VFTs do like their roots somewhat on the drier side of the spectrum. For watering, I would have filled up the water tray (high), let it evaporate over time, wait for a day or two, then fill it up again.

On my remainder plants This pants grow ok at first then the new growth got smaller and smaller. With some of the new growth having black tips on the leaves like if the sun had burned them. Or deformed leaves that never opened or opened very little with no teeth on them. Can any one help me or give me some advice of how to help my plants grow strange.
Why would 100% long fibered sphagnum moss do this or is there a specific way to prepare the moss?

1) perhaps your humidity levels are too low, or your lights are too bright. maybe your watering regimen leaves your plant constantly waterlogged (which it hates). LFS would not do what you are suggesting....unless if it isn't LFS.
2) It's January. your plants should be sleeping right now. NOT GROWING.

I used distilled water only, I water the plants with a tray, and had them under growing lights.
Thank you for reading.

Where do you live? They'd do much better if you had them growing outside! Keeping that in mind, i think all your VFTs are doing poorly because they require a dormancy period from usually October through February (a good rule to follow: Halloween to Valentine's Day). You can't induce dormancy yourself because it's way too complicated: a gradual lowering of temperatures + reduced photoperiod. Don't try forcing dormancy now, it's too late for that, if they happen to survive through this time, and are able to go back into their growing phase, feed them well and prepare them for the next winter when it comes.

Happy Growing,
Jon

PS: if your VFT happens to be slinging out any flower stalks as spring rolls by, i'd strongly advise you to clip them. Energy investment into seed is profound and at the state your plant is in, you could end up killing it. you might think you could plant the seeds but what is to guarantee that your plants would have enough energy to carry the seeds to maturity?

 

[J-rod]

OK Thank you for your reply

1) perhaps your humidity levels are too low, or your lights are too bright. maybe your watering regimen leaves your plant constantly waterlogged (which it hates). LFS would not do what you are suggesting....unless if it isn't LFS.

I bought a bag of 100% long fibered sphagnum moss from Lowes. the LFS i bought from lowes looked darker in color then the ones i have seen online. im not sure if this is relevant.

It's January. your plants should be sleeping right now. NOT GROWING.

Yes, my plants have been sleeping in the fridge for the last six weeks

Where do you live?

I live In McAllen TX, i have them under lights becouse i live in a apartment complex if I would leave them out side they will be stolen,

Thank you Jon

 

[ieat100s]

How do you know that they'll be stolen?

 

[amphirion]

Coloration of the sphagnum usually depends on grade quality and origin. There's a good chance that your bag of moss probably comes from canadian origin. The much lighter (and better grade) strain of sphagnum comes from New Zealand or Chile. Like I said, you should try adding in some perlite into your LFS mix to make it more airy.

6 weeks of dormancy in my humble opinion is too short--8 to 10 weeks is more of the norm I believe. But you don't have to take my word for it. Go ahead and look around the forums regarding people's Sarrs, VFTs, and temperate sundews for this year and you will see that no one's bogs have awaken from dormancy yet.

ah. that makes sense that you cant grow them outdoors...not even a windowsill? they'd do better on a window sill.

i feel ya. i live in a condominium, and there isn't a place where i can grow NA CPs...which is why i decided to go with the tropicals.

 

[Clue]

If you think it's mineral burns, I'd suspect perlite to be the cause. The poorer quality ones can harbor quite a bit of minerals.

 

[J-rod]

How do you know that they'll be stolen?

i dont know for sure but i would bet money on it. So im not willing to loose my plants to a bunch of kids. The way the apartment complex is set up people walk by all the time. i cant wait to move out. so can look for a place to put them out side were they should be.

6 weeks of dormancy in my humble opinion is too short--8 to 10 weeks is more of the norm I believe. But you don't have to take my word for it. Go ahead and look around the forums regarding people's Sarrs, VFTs, and temperate sundews for this year and you will see that no one's bogs have awaken from dormancy yet.

LOL ok i Totally agree with you, but my plants are still in the fridge and they will be there for another 6 weeks so that would make a total of 12 weeks for their dormancy. my problems stared in August my plants got really sick at lest the ones that were in 100% LFS did. Ok so I am trying to find out whats the best way to get this little guys up and going when I get them out of the fridge around March.

If you think it's mineral burns, I'd suspect perlite to be the cause.

the thing is that i didint have any perlite in with the plants that got sick just 100% LFM

i would Appreciate more feed back. once again Thank you all...

 

[Clue]

the thing is that i didint have any perlite in with the plants that got sick just 100% LFM

Hmm... I don't think that it's really minerals then. Sphagnum and minerals don't go together.

 

[amphirion]

Hmm... I don't think that it's really minerals then. Sphagnum and minerals don't go together.

too bad, im betting he doesn't have LIVE lfs. then we'd know for sure--live sphagnum is the best: it sings like a canary- if it's not growing well, something's wrong.

 

[J-rod]

too bad, im betting he doesn't have LIVE lfs. then we'd know for sure--live sphagnum is the best: it sings like a canary- if it's not growing well, something's

no its not live LFS, its dry. the few times i gave it water from the top i the water that sat in the tray was a brown color. (i dont know if this is normol or not) im guessing its not. i then Flushed the media out untill the water was clear but it was to late. i have my plants bare root in the fridge. when i took them out of ther pots the plants had very little roots on them i didint see any root rot so im kinda lost.

 

[Clue]

too bad, im betting he doesn't have LIVE lfs. then we'd know for sure--live sphagnum is the best: it sings like a canary- if it's not growing well, something's wrong.

I didn't know that, I just thought that the dried stuff broke down just as well when minerals get to it. Thanks for the knowledge!

...the few times i gave it water from the top i the water that sat in the tray was a brown color.

I'm pretty sure that those are tannins coming from the media. My water doesn't come out crystal clear for most of my plants unless I've flushed the soil recently.

Would you happen to have any pictures? I have seen some things (black leaves, weird growth) from my semi-dormant plants each year around November. It could be a number of different things, so it would be helpful to see what the plants look like.

I hope you figure out what's happening with them and that they have a wonderful growing season.

 

[amphirion]

I didn't know that, I just thought that the dried stuff broke down just as well when minerals get to it. Thanks for the knowledge!

no problem. actually the train of thought came from BigBella. it goes really well with the Helis. if the sphagnum looks dried out at the tips, it's a warning that your more on the dry side. if it dies--something's wrong with your water, or there are nutrient deposits that need to be flushed out etc.

@j-rod: next time you decide to prepare sphagnum moss for a planting media, try placing a bunch of it into a ziplock bag, fill it up with dH2O and let it sit for a while (over night if you have to). the dried LFS will soak up the water and then it will be good for planting. but what's the rush? if you're planning on extending dormancy for an additional 6 weeks, why not use that time to get and prepare a more suitable media that VFT's are more happy to be in?

 

[Alexis]

Your mix sounds complicated. Just repot in 2:1 peat: perlite.

 

[J-rod]

Would you happen to have any pictures? I have seen some things (black leaves, weird growth) from my semi-dormant plants each year around November. It could be a number of different things, so it would be helpful to see what the plants look like.

i never took any photos of my plants when they where sick and thanks for the help, i hope they take off ok this growing session.

@j-rod: next time you decide to prepare sphagnum moss for a planting media, try placing a bunch of it into a ziplock bag, fill it up with dH2O and let it sit for a while (over night if you have to). the dried LFS will soak up the water and then it will be good for planting. but what's the rush? if you're planning on extending dormancy for an additional 6 weeks, why not use that time to get and prepare a more suitable media that VFT's are more happy to be in?

ok ill start to get together the things i need for my media. thank you for the info.

Your mix sounds complicated. Just repot in 2:1 peat: perlite.

i will have to Experiment with diffrent types of media this session ill try your 2-1 peat-perlite

thank you all for the info

 

[scottychaos]

J-Rod,
how long have you had the VFTs in question?

it sounds to me the problem might not the moss, or minerals, at all..
the culprits could be "growing VFTs indoors" combined with "putting plants into the fridge that are not properly prepared for dormancy"..both common maladys of VFT's..

If your plants seemed fine before you put them in the fridge, but seem to be in declining health now, that could be the problem..

relevant questions:

1. Where did you buy them?
2. When?
3. Have they been growing indoors under grow lights the whole time you have owned them?

Scot

 

[cmm889]

I'd have to agree with scott on this one ( at least to a degree )

i'd be willing to bet its not a mineral burn, not because of hard water, and not because of any moss or media issue your considering, VFT's are hardy enough (with good conditions) to handle really any of those for a longer period of time than most seem to give them credit for...

you put them in the fridge? of course your growth will get smaller! thats what happens...hell you should almost expect them to die back to just a couple small rosetted leaves...

I'm not going to get started on a dormancy grow guide, or even a "outdoor vs indoor" issue... becuase frankly theres a crap load of information and threads over that exact subject on about every single forum that talks about Cp's...

but definitely no need to jump to a super elaborate problem like mineral burn... that just sounds crazy to me.

Good luck
Chris

 

[J-rod]

I had my plants in a ten gallon fish tank with a glass top on it with two T8 Lights. My plants got sick back in August and didn’t get any better so I put them in the fridge for there dormancy. (They were sick and looking bad Before I put them in the fridge). I just want to know what’s the best way to start them off good this session when I do take them out.

The reason I say that I think it was mineral burn is because I read a description of how a plant would grow if it were mineral burns and that’s how my plants were growing.

The weird thing is that only my plants that were In 100% LFS got sick, not the plants that were in my normal mix.

 

[Not a Number]

Long fibre sphagnum as a substrate should not be a problem as long as you don't keep it overly wet while the plants are dormant.

The question is how long did you have the plants before the problem began to manifest itself. Did you buy the plants from a CP nursery (mention no names as per forum rules) or at a garden center such a Lowes or WalMart?

Mineral "burn" takes months of watering with hard water to manifest. Of course very high chlorine levels can accelerate this.

The symptoms you describe can stem from other causes too:

Sunburn - this happens when a plant grown indoors or in poor light conditions is moved abruptly into full sun. You'll usually notice that formerly white portions of the petioles turn red quickly. Depending on how healthy or abrupt the change it can take 2-6 weeks for the plant to recover. A very unhealthy plant might die.

Roots drying out - this is fatal to VFTs and the symptoms are pretty much the same as you mention. Restoring water will not save the plant. Say "bye-bye". Did you buy the plant on-line or by mail order? Was it shipped bare-root or potted? Was it still moist when you recieved it? Were the roots ever exposed long enough to dry out? Did the medium ever dry out? If you bought it at a garden center was it from a fairly new shipment or one that may have been sitting there for over a few weeks. They may have been allowed to dry out but watered soon before you bought it and prior to the plant showing symptoms.

Rhizome rot - this could be a result of the plant dying or could be the cause of it going done hill. Most likely cause are fungus and molds, facilitated by too wet conditions during dormancy. The healthier a plant is going into dormancy the better chances of surviving through dormancy.

cooked plants - too much heat. Small dark pots exposed to intense sun or plants in a closed or mostly closed container exposed to direct sunlight.

Throwing an unhealthy plant into the refrigerator to try to induce a deep dormancy isn't likely to cure what ails it. Again, if it wasn't healthy going into dormancy it's not going to be healthy coming out - if it even survives. Inspect it weekly for further deterioration. Removing rotting parts and treating with a fungicide might help but if it continues to rot it's probably a write-off. The best you can hope is that enough of a germ of life will remain that it will start growing again in the spring.

Note: Some perfectly healthy plants lose all their leaves in the winter. It mainly depends on the individual plant.

 

[scottychaos]

I had my plants in a ten gallon fish tank with a glass top on it with two T8 Lights. My plants got sick back in August and didn’t get any better so I put them in the fridge for there dormancy. (They were sick and looking bad Before I put them in the fridge). I just want to know what’s the best way to start them off good this session when I do take them out.

The reason I say that I think it was mineral burn is because I read a description of how a plant would grow if it were mineral burns and that’s how my plants were growing.

The weird thing is that only my plants that were In 100% LFS got sick, not the plants that were in my normal mix.

hmmm..
well it seems you made two mistakes..
dont feel bad, lots of first time growers do it..

mistake #1

I had my plants in a ten gallon fish tank with a glass top on it with two T8 Lights.

really bad way to grow VFTs..they cant survive that way more than a year, probably less..

mistake #2:

My plants got sick back in August and didn’t get any better so I put them in the fridge for there dormancy.

that made it much worse.. :-(
your plants were probably getting weak and sickly because of how you were growing them..putting them in the fridge was a big mistake..that only made their plight even worse..

you cant put VFTs in the fridge for dormancy unless they are already dormant..and they can only be already dormant if they have been growing outdoors between March and November..

so sorry..you made a few pretty major growing mistakes..your plants might not survive..
but dont lose hope yet!
you live in Texas right?
this is what I would do..

take your plants out of the fridge..right now..put them outside..
if its above 32 degrees, leave them out..
keep them in trays of water..they might recover in the spring..

yes I know you said you cant put them outside because they might get stolen..well, its really the only chance they have..
if you cant grow VFTs outside because they might get stolen, then you simply cant grow VFTs period..not right now anyway..not until you move.

try putting them outside..they might still pull through!
but right now leaving them in a fridge virtually guarantees they will die..
putting them back in a fish tank under grow lights absolutely guarantees they will die..
outside is the only chance they have..

Scot

 

[J-rod]

The question is how long did you have the plants before the problem began to manifest itself. Did you buy the plants from a CP nursery (mention no names as per forum rules) or at a garden center such a Lowes or WalMart?

i had them for about six months before they got sick i got my plants from lowes and two from ebay. the plants were healthy when i first got them. becouse they where growing Vigorously then they stoped.

cooked plants - too much heat. Small dark pots exposed to intense sun or plants in a closed or mostly closed container exposed to direct sunlight.

ok know were geting some where his is more likely to be the problem, like I said earlier is that I had them in a ten-gallon fish tank with a glass lid with two T8 lights in side. And yes it got hot in side, but I thought that the heat would not harm it but I guess that made things worse. So a combination of heat and no aeration to the roots because of the 100% LFM just choked them. Thank you Not a Number for your help and advice.

that made it much worse..
your plants were probably getting weak and sickly because of how you were growing them..putting them in the fridge was a big mistake..that only made their plight even worse..

Really... that sucks i thougt you could put them in the fridge the cold would induce there dormacey yes im a newbe so im new to all this and im learning from my mistakes.

take your plants out of the fridge..right now..put them outside..
if its above 32 degrees, leave them out..
keep them in trays of water..they might recover in the spring..

ok well ill take out two of my fav plants and put them out side i hope they dont end up missing in action. Thanks scott for your help and info.