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Thread: Help me save my Gold Strike

  1. #33
    scottychaos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seedjar View Post
    Um, did you read the original post or not? The plants were in the fridge, not outside. The "particular method" that you describe as to have "failed" is fridge dormancy. I guess, if your intent is to kill some of your plants each season, than yes, the fridge is the right method.
    apparently you did not read the original post, and following posts, properly..

    Quote Originally Posted by mcantrell View Post
    So my Gold Strike is still alive.

    This is honestly somewhat of a shock, as it was the smallest plant placed outside with my other VFTs, and not brought in anywhere near soon enough. It's spent the last 2 and a half Months in a small fridge in my bedroom closet, doing the dormancy thing.
    Quote Originally Posted by mcantrell View Post
    As for keeping them outside, well, here were the temps in December when I finally brought them in:
    http://www.wunderground.com/history/....html#calendar
    Quote Originally Posted by mcantrell View Post
    Might try that next winter. I put them in the fridge cause I had left them outside for weeks and well, 20 degree days... yeah.


    The plant died because it was left outside in December, in severe cold, and through a months worth of daily freeze/thaw cycles..before it was put in the fridge..
    the fridge didnt kill it..being outside in December killed it..

    Quote Originally Posted by seedjar View Post
    The "particular method" that you describe as to have "failed" is fridge dormancy.
    no..its not..see above.
    the method that failed is leaving the plants outside in December in Idaho..
    thats what failed..which is what I have been saying all along.

    Scot

  2. #34
    Let's positive thinking! seedjar's Avatar
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    I see your point there, but that's not the impression I got from the rest of mcantrell's post. If his observations are to be trusted, it appeared to be somewhat alive after coming out of the fridge. Unless the fridge method is so good that it can actually resurrect dead plants?
    If the plant were even partially dead going into the fridge, it only complicates matters by increasing humidity and ethylene levels, which encourages rot, and maintaining the plants consistently above freezing, which allows germs to continue metabolizing while the plant halts photosynthesis (if done right) and relies entirely on stored sugars for survival. I might be wrong - I haven't seen any data about it - but I'd guess that the microfauna that normally protect against rot pathogens probably don't like it in the fridge either.
    Also, did you not see where I conceded that you were correct in your point about transitioning the plants more carefully? My argument is not that the fridge killed the plant; it's that outdoor growing is possible, not to mention easier, cheaper and more reliable when done right. The fridge is a stressful environment (this is my opinion, but also widely held by many, many other experienced growers) and I have yet to see any significant evidence that it's necessary for conditions reported in mcantrell's area.
    ~Joe
    o//~ Livin' like a bug ain't easy / My old clothes don't seem to fit me /
    I got little tiny bug feet / I don't really know what bugs eat /
    Don't want no one steppin' on me / Now I'm sympathizin' with fleas /
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  3. #35
    scottychaos's Avatar
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    I suppose its possible the fridge could push an already "nearly dead" plant "over the brink"..
    but thats not really the fridge's fault..

    I wouldnt consider the fridge "stressful" at all..if the plant is already fully dormant when it goes into the fridge..at 35 degree F, the plant is not growing, so it needs no light..its really just suspended animation..

    and how would the fridge be any different than a plant buried under thick mulch in a bog outdoors?
    conditions would be about identical..
    totally dark and a (hopefully) even temperature..

    If I were a dormant VFT, given a choice between the outdoor bog or the fridge, I would prefer the fridge..because at least that I know for a fact I wont freeze in the fridge..but in the bog, there is no such guarantee..if I had to choose the more stressful environment, fridge or bog, the bog is much more of a gamble..especially in our northern climates..

    When I eventually build my outdoor bog, I will probably still take some of my more prized plants, uproot them in the fall, and put them in the stairwell for the winter! (which is essentially "the fridge method") becuase I know the odds of survival are MUCH more favorable in the fridge..because the climate is so uch more controllable and steady..I will risk some "common" plants out in the bog, just to see how they do..

    I still think that in this case it wasnt the fridge that killed Mcantrells plant..
    it was probably already dead, or nearly so, before it even went in the fridge..

    but a healthy plant that is already nicely dormant, naturally, because it has been outside April-November, has zero problems going into the fridge..
    (17 years in a row!)

    Scot

  4. #36
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    actually, I believe it rotted in the fridge. I kept them a bit too wet.

  5. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottychaos View Post
    I wouldnt consider the fridge "stressful" at all..if the plant is already fully dormant when it goes into the fridge..at 35 degree F, the plant is not growing, so it needs no light..its really just suspended animation.
    I don't think the jury is in on dormant VFTs not needing light. Just because a plant isn't growing does not necessarily mean that it's in suspended animation. A plant could be suspended and still photosynthesize storing this energy for the growth that occurs when it comes out of dormancy.

    I tried a VFT dormancy that was cold and well illuminated this year. And I noticed that the VFT emerged from dormancy much more vigorous than normal. This is not a scientific observation, of course, because I did not have a control. However, the fact I did observe something might warrant a more methodical scientific experiment to see if light during dormancy makes a difference.

    -Hermes.
    "The grass withers, the flower fades. But the word of our God stands forever." (Isaiah 40:8)

    My Grow List Updated Oct 22/2010.

  6. #38
    scottychaos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hermopolis View Post
    I don't think the jury is in on dormant VFTs not needing light. Just because a plant isn't growing does not necessarily mean that it's in suspended animation.

    -Hermes.
    In...complete...darkness...for...three...and...a...half...solid...months.
    Seventeen...years...in...a...row...with...absolute...success....

    seriously:
    http://gold.mylargescale.com/scottychaos/CP/

    thats not good enough?
    the jury is definitely "out"..

    sure, if its warmer, some light is good..
    dormancy isnt necessarily a "100% turned off" proposition..most people agree there are "degrees of dormancy"
    but its a confirmed fact that if its cold enough (35 degrees F) the plants survive totally fine with zero light..thats just a known fact.

    but if your plants are at 40-50 degrees all winter, I would want some light..
    outdoors in the wild, the plants do get plenty of light all winter..and they are generally warmer than 35 degrees all winter..
    so perhaps 35 degrees and pitch darkeness isnt the "ideal" dormancy method..I have never said it is..
    its not very "natural"..but it also definitely works just fine..
    and for many of us, its the only option..there is nothing wrong with the fridge method if thats all you have..

    Scot

  7. #39
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    Whoa! Dude... Calm down... No need to shout.

    Look, I don't doubt that you can be successful with total dark dormancy. Enough people have done it that I think it is a successful technique. I just question whether dormancy would be more successful in the case of a lighted dormancy. I'm not being dogmatic about this and neither should you. When you say "it is really just suspended animation," this is probably hyperbole. There are metabolic processes that still take place even during dormancy. I am just not convinced that it is as suspended as you suggest.

    -Hermes.
    "The grass withers, the flower fades. But the word of our God stands forever." (Isaiah 40:8)

    My Grow List Updated Oct 22/2010.

  8. #40
    Let's positive thinking! seedjar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottychaos View Post
    I wouldnt consider the fridge "stressful" at all..if the plant is already fully dormant when it goes into the fridge..at 35 degree F, the plant is not growing, so it needs no light..its really just suspended animation..

    and how would the fridge be any different than a plant buried under thick mulch in a bog outdoors?
    conditions would be about identical..
    totally dark and a (hopefully) even temperature..
    There are three really big reasons which I mentioned in my posts above, and also are frequently cited by others with much more experience than myself. I'm pretty sure that you can scroll up and read them, if you want to. There's a myriad of tertiary differences as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by scottychaos View Post
    and for many of us, its the only option..there is nothing wrong with the fridge method if thats all you have..
    Again, this all began when several of us suggested that the fridge isn't mcantrell's only option. There's really no reason to bicker over the rest of it; it appears to me that your objection is not so much to the assertion that a more natural dormancy is superior when available, but the argument that your assumption that mcantrell can't keep his plants outside is faulty. They really are two very distinct questions, related only by tangent. I think it would be most productive (not to mention congenial) if we focused on the OP and advising mcantrell as to his own circumstances.
    ~Joe
    o//~ Livin' like a bug ain't easy / My old clothes don't seem to fit me /
    I got little tiny bug feet / I don't really know what bugs eat /
    Don't want no one steppin' on me / Now I'm sympathizin' with fleas /
    Livin' like a bug ain't easy / Livin' like a bug ain't easy... o//~

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