User Tag List

Informational! Informational!:  0
Likes Likes:  0
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 9 to 14 of 14

Thread: VFT Growth Range

  1. #9

    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    107
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Hi Folks:

    I looked into this statement from TerraForums:

    "There are fossil records of Dionaea pollen in Central Europe from about 14 million years ago. It's thought Dionaea's was very wide spread as with Aldrovanda. Aldrovanda and Dionaea are thought to have come from a common ancestor some 65 million years ago.

    http://www.amjbot.org/cgi/content/full/89/9/1503"

    We went back and checked the Muller 1981 citation for Dionaea pollen in Europe and could not find it in the original research paper (or at least it wasn't in the section on the Caryophyllales). Furthermore, the references to Aldrovanda paleo-pollen are also questionable - see Lubomir Adamec comments:

    "I know the well-known and cited paper by Yakubovskaya (perhaps 1991) describing seeds of different palaeo Aldrovanda species from Bielorussia. However, the finding of my colleagues from Prague that
    the Palaeoaldrovanda splendens fossils are in fact insect's eggs has not yet been published, to my best knowledge."

    So.. do we really have any credible, substantial evidence for paleo Dionaea or Aldrovanda? Look forward to hearing from you.

    Sincerely,

    Phil Sheridan, Ph.D.
    Director
    Meadowview Biological
    Research Station

  2. #10
    Tropical Fish Enthusiast jimscott's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Western New York
    Posts
    18,768
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Dexenthes View Post
    You think about Darlingtonia californica, it's much the same, very specialized, unlike any other pitcher plants yet it only grows along a relatively select little strip of northern California/southern Oregon.

    Or Cephalotus follicularis, it's range is not particularly large.
    I was wondering what hppened that resulted in them being classified as having only one species in the genus.

  3. #11
    scottychaos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Western New York, USA
    Posts
    2,970
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by jimscott View Post
    I was wondering what hppened that resulted in them being classified as having only one species in the genus.
    There simply arent any other close enough species to go in the genus with them.

    the *genus* Sarracenia has 9 species within it..
    each of the species are close enough related to belong to the same genus..

    But in the case of the genus Dionaea and Darlingtonia, there just isnt that kind of variety..
    one genus, with only species within it.
    its just a quirk of nature..perhaps there were once more closely related species, that today might have been classified in the same genus..and perhaps there will be again in the future..
    but not at this point in time!

    Scot

  4. #12
    Not Growing Up! GrowinOld's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    ARTificial Bog in da' Middle of da' USA
    Posts
    932
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I am not too sure about the nearby environments of Cephalotus or Darlingtonia, however it seems to me that there are quite a few viable areas relatively near to the current range of native VFT's, that it seems odd that it isn't spread further, as Sarrs and dews are.
    If there were no other nearby environs that would support their needs, then I would understand why they are limited to the area they are (like with the Cobras... apparently needing an active flow of cool/cold water), but the VFT's don't seem so picky in their requirements. In general, their needs seem very close to that of many other Sarrs and Dews. (Again, NOT true of Darlingtonia.)

    I guess it is possible that they never extended further, or also possible they were more widespread and have since dwindled (for some reason) to the one small region they now occupy. Here again, I am wondering why.
    While I still like the theory that a comet fell, bringing this strange life-form to planet earth; I do think there are more likely theories out there.

    While my education on this is limited, as far as the number of species in the VFT genus, I do wonder how accurate our methods of classification are sometimes. Indeed I can see the obvious differences from say an S.Flava to an S.Minor. However, perhaps there are already more than one species of Dionaea (like ground hugging vs. upright plants) in existence, if not in the process of becoming/forming. Just because we aren't aware of it today, doesn't mean it doesn't exist (or can't).

    It is easy to understand the destruction of one of the species of a particular plant genus. A bit more difficult to understand, seems to be the process of when a new species is forming and coming into existence. Yet this would be a truly exciting opportunity, to be around at the very point in time (and aware enough to observe it when we see it happening), as a plant is in its steps of becoming/creating/forming itself into a new species!

    The only thing of real importance from what I see, is being wise in our dealings no matter what the reality/facts end up being.
    Experience is the best teacher. At least it used to be.
    But then, common sense isn't so common anymore, is it.


    http://www.terraforums.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=113866

  5. #13
    Tropical Fish Enthusiast jimscott's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Western New York
    Posts
    18,768
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    One thing to remember, Taxonomy is a manmade concept and 'speciation' is as well. Back when i was in school, they defined a species as being able to produce viable offspring. If it couldn't do that, you had a separate and distinct species. We had to learn that phrase, "Ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny", which was a fancy way of saying that like things produce like things. But now we have a whole mess of species producing viable offspring. So that makes me wonder how many true species there really are.

  6. #14
    I drink to make others more interesting. bpullin's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Cartersville, GA
    Posts
    170
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    VFT's have been introduced for naturalization in some areas of the Florida panhandle.
    We'll raise up our glasses against evil forces
    Singing whiskey for my men, beer for my horses

    1-20-13 = The End of an Error.

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Similar Threads

  1. Safe TDS Range?
    By MidnightSkies in forum General Discussions
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 06-02-2010, 06:17 AM
  2. safe PPM range for CPs?
    By SirKristoff in forum General Discussions
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 03-20-2009, 04:26 PM
  3. Bruce......long range shooting with black powder...
    By rattler in forum General Discussions
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 07-24-2007, 04:44 PM
  4. Does anyone have fusca crocker range?
    By fc3srx713b in forum Tropical Pitcher Plants  (Nepenthes)
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 09-16-2005, 09:05 AM
  5. Fun day at the rifle range
    By TunaSurprise in forum General Discussions
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 06-05-2005, 11:18 AM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •