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VFT Growth Range

GrowinOld

Not Growing Up!
I have read that Worldwide, the Venus' fly-trap is only native within a 100-mile radius of Wilmington, N.C. As other CP's (Sarrs and Dews) range is a lot broader, and all these plants grow quite well experiencing identical conditions (as VFT's do) in many cultivated situations, does anyone have any theories as to why the range of VFT's natural growth has remained so small compared to that of other CP's?
Is it thought to be a more recent species that hasn't had as much time to spread, or is there something about it's environment that prevents it from growing naturally in other areas? Seems to me that I have heard that plants introduced into other areas have done well, and if so then why has it not expanded its range as the Dews and Sarrs have?

With winter approaching and there being a bit less to do "plant tending"-wise, these are the thoughts I begin to contemplate!

I already know that growing them from seed sometimes requires the patience and dedication of a Centenarian, however I am interested in some unusual and typical VFT seed to work with, if anyone has a worthwhile quantity to trade, or otherwise. (PM me if you do.)

Like many other CP's, it is sad to know that their habitat is so small and limited, and yet still being destroyed! If things continue as they are, it will be up to people like us to find a solution. And as has been suggested at times, that solution may lie beyond normal conservation efforts, protection, and preservation of a few small habitats, if the threatened species are to survive.
 
Thats too bad
 
There are fossil records of Dionaea pollen in Central Europe from about 14 million years ago. It's thought Dionaea's was very wide spread as with Aldrovanda. Aldrovanda and Dionaea are thought to have come from a common ancestor some 65 million years ago.

http://www.amjbot.org/cgi/content/full/89/9/1503

The Carolina coastal plains used to be frequently inundated with periodic flooding and earlier forms of DIonaea were probably semi-aquatic. As the coastal plains dried up probably only those plants better adapted to drier conditions survived.
 
Hey NaN,

Made for an interesting read... thanks.
I have seen where stands of plants introduced (in the 1930's!?) further south were growing strong and well established. With so many decent habitats in the neighboring states, it just seemed a bit strange to me how other plants were so widespread into these areas, while VFT's stayed where they were, so to speak.
A lot of time has passed from when they began, and it would be interesting to know what actually occurred. Nature is indeed amazing in its behavior and abilities, and it is sometimes hard to predict what the future holds. (I think getting them to grow in normal soil would greatly help their chances of survival. Unlikely to happen however! )

As a kid I remember an advertisement about VFT's, telling the tale of a comet landing in Wilmington N.C. millions of years ago, which had the strange "unearthly" life forms on it leading to VFT's growing only in that area and no where else! Nothing like truth in advertising!
Actually it was a good story for kids and did answer why they grew in that area and no where else! Ridiculous, but cute!
Perhaps not as reasonable as rising and falling water levels, continental drift, survival of the fittest and so-on, but a lot more intriguing! :-D

I am still not sure why the VFT didn't spread further over thousands of years, since reasonable habitats are rather close to "home" for it (unlike an N.Villosa which cannot spread further as the surrounding habitat is not conducive to its survival). Perhaps that comet theory is right after all! :-))

Thanks again for the input!
 
Just a thought- perhaps something to do with the topography of their native range? As I understand it, they are right on the coast (relatively) and while they could get flooded, the waters might push seed closer to the ocean, which can only survive so far before getting too salty. Any raise in sea level,(due to interglacial sea rise, not storm surges and the like) which would push the floating seed back, would get killed by the salt. Though, I suppose that would also kill the majority of the parent plants themselves, wouldnt it? So, they are perhaps effectively on an "island" of inhabitable conditions.... maybe.

Im just pondering like GrowinOld over there!
 
Hey,
Good pondering!
It's the start of figuring things out, even a mystery like this! :scratch:

Nature is amazing!
:water:
 
Yeah I would guess that maybe there is some geographical restrictions right around it's range that kept it from being widely prolific.

It is a phenomena that occurs with carnivorous plants though... Some species don't have really broad ranges. When you think about it, there are actually only a handful that are really spread out across many continents.

You think about Darlingtonia californica, it's much the same, very specialized, unlike any other pitcher plants yet it only grows along a relatively select little strip of northern California/southern Oregon.

Or Cephalotus follicularis, it's range is not particularly large.
 
Dex,

My only thought was with the fact that VFT's seem to be able to grow elsewhere rather well (areas in other states where they were introduced grew like natives), as I mentioned, while other plants like Darlingtonia are in a specific environment (cold mountain streams and underground waterways) and cannot easily grow in surrounding areas. (Like ultra-highland Neps. are restricted by their narrow environmental needs.)
In a lot of places (not all), if the dews and Sarrs can grow there, VFT's can survive also. Unlike Darlingtonia which seems to be more environment specific.
 
Hi Folks:

I looked into this statement from TerraForums:

"There are fossil records of Dionaea pollen in Central Europe from about 14 million years ago. It's thought Dionaea's was very wide spread as with Aldrovanda. Aldrovanda and Dionaea are thought to have come from a common ancestor some 65 million years ago.

http://www.amjbot.org/cgi/content/full/89/9/1503"

We went back and checked the Muller 1981 citation for Dionaea pollen in Europe and could not find it in the original research paper (or at least it wasn't in the section on the Caryophyllales). Furthermore, the references to Aldrovanda paleo-pollen are also questionable - see Lubomir Adamec comments:

"I know the well-known and cited paper by Yakubovskaya (perhaps 1991) describing seeds of different palaeo Aldrovanda species from Bielorussia. However, the finding of my colleagues from Prague that
the Palaeoaldrovanda splendens fossils are in fact insect's eggs has not yet been published, to my best knowledge."

So.. do we really have any credible, substantial evidence for paleo Dionaea or Aldrovanda? Look forward to hearing from you.

Sincerely,

Phil Sheridan, Ph.D.
Director
Meadowview Biological
Research Station
 
  • #10
You think about Darlingtonia californica, it's much the same, very specialized, unlike any other pitcher plants yet it only grows along a relatively select little strip of northern California/southern Oregon.

Or Cephalotus follicularis, it's range is not particularly large.

I was wondering what hppened that resulted in them being classified as having only one species in the genus.
 
  • #11
I was wondering what hppened that resulted in them being classified as having only one species in the genus.

There simply arent any other close enough species to go in the genus with them.

the *genus* Sarracenia has 9 species within it..
each of the species are close enough related to belong to the same genus..

But in the case of the genus Dionaea and Darlingtonia, there just isnt that kind of variety..
one genus, with only species within it.
its just a quirk of nature..perhaps there were once more closely related species, that today might have been classified in the same genus..and perhaps there will be again in the future..
but not at this point in time! ;)

Scot
 
  • #12
I am not too sure about the nearby environments of Cephalotus or Darlingtonia, however it seems to me that there are quite a few viable areas relatively near to the current range of native VFT's, that it seems odd that it isn't spread further, as Sarrs and dews are.
If there were no other nearby environs that would support their needs, then I would understand why they are limited to the area they are (like with the Cobras... apparently needing an active flow of cool/cold water), but the VFT's don't seem so picky in their requirements. In general, their needs seem very close to that of many other Sarrs and Dews. (Again, NOT true of Darlingtonia.)

I guess it is possible that they never extended further, or also possible they were more widespread and have since dwindled (for some reason) to the one small region they now occupy. Here again, I am wondering why.
While I still like the theory that a comet fell, bringing this strange life-form to planet earth; I do think there are more likely theories out there.

While my education on this is limited, as far as the number of species in the VFT genus, I do wonder how accurate our methods of classification are sometimes. Indeed I can see the obvious differences from say an S.Flava to an S.Minor. However, perhaps there are already more than one species of Dionaea (like ground hugging vs. upright plants) in existence, if not in the process of becoming/forming. Just because we aren't aware of it today, doesn't mean it doesn't exist (or can't).

It is easy to understand the destruction of one of the species of a particular plant genus. A bit more difficult to understand, seems to be the process of when a new species is forming and coming into existence. Yet this would be a truly exciting opportunity, to be around at the very point in time (and aware enough to observe it when we see it happening), as a plant is in its steps of becoming/creating/forming itself into a new species!

The only thing of real importance from what I see, is being wise in our dealings no matter what the reality/facts end up being.
 
  • #13
One thing to remember, Taxonomy is a manmade concept and 'speciation' is as well. Back when i was in school, they defined a species as being able to produce viable offspring. If it couldn't do that, you had a separate and distinct species. We had to learn that phrase, "Ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny", which was a fancy way of saying that like things produce like things. But now we have a whole mess of species producing viable offspring. So that makes me wonder how many true species there really are.
 
  • #14
VFT's have been introduced for naturalization in some areas of the Florida panhandle.
 
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