When should I fridge it? I'm going to have to fridge it overwinter as no part of my apartment gets cold enough, and being in Michigan, the porch gets too cold. I thought I had to wait for it to go all brown and die back before I fridged it, but that hasn't happened yet, and it seems like it should have started at least.
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So, my VFT doesn't seem to be starting dormancy on my sill...
- Thread starter jebbewocky
- Start date
I have limited experience with providing dormancy for the temperates, but my experience tells me they don't necessarily "die back" for dormancy. Last winter, all of my Sarrs and flytraps just... stopped growing. Maybe a couple dried traps over the course of the winter, but overall, they looked perfectly healthy... just... not growing. Then spring came and they all exploded.
For whatever it's worth. ;p
Oh, and: A lot of people do dormancy in their unheated garage if outdoors is too cold. If that's not an option for whatever reason (as it wasn't for me), you can do what I did: stick 'em in a window sill in a room that's not often used (for me, it was a spare bathroom) and crack the window just enough to cool the window sill but not enough to significantly affect your heating bill, lol.
For whatever it's worth. ;p
Oh, and: A lot of people do dormancy in their unheated garage if outdoors is too cold. If that's not an option for whatever reason (as it wasn't for me), you can do what I did: stick 'em in a window sill in a room that's not often used (for me, it was a spare bathroom) and crack the window just enough to cool the window sill but not enough to significantly affect your heating bill, lol.
Were you growing them outside and brought them in??
What are outside temps?
From what I know, and if you were growing them outside, leave them outside to experience frost a few times to really get them in to dormancy and then fridge em or garage em or whatever you would do to shelter them from long term freeze.....
What are outside temps?
From what I know, and if you were growing them outside, leave them outside to experience frost a few times to really get them in to dormancy and then fridge em or garage em or whatever you would do to shelter them from long term freeze.....
there is one word that is the source of all your problems.."sill"..
more:
http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/scottychaos/CP/page2.html
You cant put a plant in the fridge if it isnt already dormant..
a plant cant go dormant if its indoors on a windowsill..
the moral of the story?
you cant successfully grow VFTs indoors long term..
its just nature..there is no way around it..they simply are not tropical houseplants.
If your *only* option is to grow them indoors, you have two choices.
1. don't grow them.
2. accept that they will likely die..then buy new ones..in that case, there isnt much sense in even bothering with dormancy at all..because you cant do dormancy anyway.
Scot
more:
http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/scottychaos/CP/page2.html
You cant put a plant in the fridge if it isnt already dormant..
a plant cant go dormant if its indoors on a windowsill..
the moral of the story?
you cant successfully grow VFTs indoors long term..
its just nature..there is no way around it..they simply are not tropical houseplants.
If your *only* option is to grow them indoors, you have two choices.
1. don't grow them.
2. accept that they will likely die..then buy new ones..in that case, there isnt much sense in even bothering with dormancy at all..because you cant do dormancy anyway.
Scot
no, absolutely not..
you need several months for a plant to go dormant..not a few days.
gradually decreasing photoperiod, and gradually decreasing temps, outdoors, from July through October is what causes a plant to go dormant.
Please note that the fridge does not cause or create the dormancy!
it simply maintains the dormancy that was already started naturally by keeping the plants outdoors all season..
the plants need to be already dormant before they go in the fridge.
If your *only* option is to grow them indoors, with no outdoor time at all, you have two choices.
1. don't grow them.
2. accept that they will likely die..then buy new ones..in that case, there isnt much sense in even bothering with dormancy at all..because you cant do dormancy anyway.
Scot
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As I said, I have little experience with dormancy and temperate plants, but I have to disagree with you, scottychaos, in saying your only options are to not grow them (how depressing!) or accept that they will likely die (even more depressing!). I've now grown my temperates indoors for two growing seasons, provided a(n apparently) perfect dormancy for them, and had them flourish their second growing season. All without any exposure whatsoever to the outdoors (except, as I said, an open window sill for dormancy).This thread seems to provide some grounds for the fact that they can be grown indoors just fine (in Joseph's case, for decades). And here are a few examples of my own plants that made it through last winter's dormancy and exploded this last spring:
As far as fridge dormancy, there are plenty accounts around the boards of having used the method quite successfully. I intend to give it a shot this winter, once they have slowed down (which they are now), albeit I'll be using a different method than most. They won't be bagged or anything, they'll be put in there potted and the media kept very slightly moist. I'll be using a fridge that is specifically for this. I intend to have a light (on a 8hr timer) and fan in there, the light to give them some semblance of a real winter and the fan to combat mold and mildew. If that's successful, I'll report my experiences here on the forums somewhere.
But my point is that I don't believe you either have to accept that you cannot grow them or that you will kill them if you try. Obviously, I haven't grown plants long-term this way, but two years is at least a decent start and they show absolutely no signs of ill effects from being grown and dormancy-itized (like that? ;p ) 100% indoors. Who knows, maybe my opinion on the matter will change next spring if my plants don't flourish like they did this year.
It's all experimentation. What works for one, may well not work for another, we all know that. Perhaps you should note, scottychaos, in these posts that these are your opinions based on your own experiences. Not that what you've found to be your only options are the only options for anyone else. ^.~
EDIT: I should also note that my Dionaea have flowered and produced seed (though not in the amounts they probably would have outdoors; I wouldn't know, however. Then again, that could well have been because they were self-pollinated) both seasons. The Sarracenia are too young, so who knows whether or not they would have.
As far as fridge dormancy, there are plenty accounts around the boards of having used the method quite successfully. I intend to give it a shot this winter, once they have slowed down (which they are now), albeit I'll be using a different method than most. They won't be bagged or anything, they'll be put in there potted and the media kept very slightly moist. I'll be using a fridge that is specifically for this. I intend to have a light (on a 8hr timer) and fan in there, the light to give them some semblance of a real winter and the fan to combat mold and mildew. If that's successful, I'll report my experiences here on the forums somewhere.
But my point is that I don't believe you either have to accept that you cannot grow them or that you will kill them if you try. Obviously, I haven't grown plants long-term this way, but two years is at least a decent start and they show absolutely no signs of ill effects from being grown and dormancy-itized (like that? ;p ) 100% indoors. Who knows, maybe my opinion on the matter will change next spring if my plants don't flourish like they did this year.
It's all experimentation. What works for one, may well not work for another, we all know that. Perhaps you should note, scottychaos, in these posts that these are your opinions based on your own experiences. Not that what you've found to be your only options are the only options for anyone else. ^.~
EDIT: I should also note that my Dionaea have flowered and produced seed (though not in the amounts they probably would have outdoors; I wouldn't know, however. Then again, that could well have been because they were self-pollinated) both seasons. The Sarracenia are too young, so who knows whether or not they would have.
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well, that might make all the difference right there..
Is the window open in the late summer and autumn as well?
and are they exposed to natural light? (decreasing photoperiod) and cooler autumn days and nights? in that case, they arent really "indoors" in the same sense that most indoor growers refer to...they are instead sort-of outdoors, being exposed to more of the outdoor climate than the indoor climate..that could be a huge factor...but most people cant keep open windows all winter long, if its a room meant for human occupation..thats the real problem.
Because there is probably a big difference between what you are doing, and a *closed* window..where the plant is exposed to climate-control for the comfort of humans..AC in the summer, and heat in the winter..(or, worse still, in a terrarium with never changing temp and never changing light)
you might be able to pull it off! 2 years isnt really enough to go on yet, but time will tell..
tell us more about your open window..what temps do you maintain during the winter?
Scot
---------- Post added at 10:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:30 PM ----------
yes, if its done right!
I agree its a quite successful method..I used it myself for over 10 years..(and in a way, im still using it now..just not with a fridge)
but! as I keep saying, the plant has to be already dormant before it goes into the fridge! you cant usually get that with indoor growing..not with a closed window..which is what jebbe is talking about..
Scot
That is very true, it's more quasi-indoors than not. It varied from 30 up towards 75 all winter, quite erratically. That's Colorado weather for ya. But, overall, the temperatures were cooler there than they would have been solely indoors. They, of course, did experience natural photoperiod variation, but that's easily replicated indoors.
And I just realized... one... y'know, kind of... important detail... *facepalm*
My flytraps (which this thread is about) didn't get the window sill. They stayed in my minibog (100% indoors) all winter. They, however, were still allowed to have a temperature drop, though less drastic. During the winter, I turn the AC in the plant room off and just pull air in from outside. This allowed the flytraps in the minibog to experience much cooler temperatures, though still not what they theoretically should have since I also have tropicals in that same room. But, as I said, they still entered what I believe to be dormancy. The temperature drop they experienced was probably, on average, about ten or fifteen degrees, and the photoperiod went from 14 hours to 8, so that might well have been enough to trigger it.
And yeah, like I said, two years is a small amount of time to base the success on, I was just saying it's a very promising start that gives me reason to believe there's at least one extra option available that doesn't include abandonment or death, haha.
And I just realized... one... y'know, kind of... important detail... *facepalm*
My flytraps (which this thread is about) didn't get the window sill. They stayed in my minibog (100% indoors) all winter. They, however, were still allowed to have a temperature drop, though less drastic. During the winter, I turn the AC in the plant room off and just pull air in from outside. This allowed the flytraps in the minibog to experience much cooler temperatures, though still not what they theoretically should have since I also have tropicals in that same room. But, as I said, they still entered what I believe to be dormancy. The temperature drop they experienced was probably, on average, about ten or fifteen degrees, and the photoperiod went from 14 hours to 8, so that might well have been enough to trigger it.
And yeah, like I said, two years is a small amount of time to base the success on, I was just saying it's a very promising start that gives me reason to believe there's at least one extra option available that doesn't include abandonment or death, haha.
Reaper,
that sounds like a pretty good system! you might have something good going there..you should keep a detailed log of your experiment!
but you arent really growing your plants indoors at all!
not in the same sense that 99% of people would attempt to grow them indoors..
(or be forced to grow them indoors)
your plants are almost on a patio..they have a roof over their heads, but as far as the plants are concerned, one wall might as well be missing! (which is a *good* thing!)
most "indoor growers" dont have the luxury of maintaining a completely unheated room all year long..(ideally you would want it to always be unheated, not just winter, but autumn and spring as well..then keep the windows wide-open all summer..) If you have that luxury, then great! but thats not really the same thing as newbys asking "can I grow my VFT indoors?"...you have created an artificial outdoors by using windows to bring much of the outdoor climate indoors..nice!
Scot
that sounds like a pretty good system! you might have something good going there..you should keep a detailed log of your experiment!
but you arent really growing your plants indoors at all!
not in the same sense that 99% of people would attempt to grow them indoors..
(or be forced to grow them indoors)
your plants are almost on a patio..they have a roof over their heads, but as far as the plants are concerned, one wall might as well be missing!
(which is a *good* thing!)most "indoor growers" dont have the luxury of maintaining a completely unheated room all year long..(ideally you would want it to always be unheated, not just winter, but autumn and spring as well..then keep the windows wide-open all summer..) If you have that luxury, then great!
but thats not really the same thing as newbys asking "can I grow my VFT indoors?"...you have created an artificial outdoors by using windows to bring much of the outdoor climate indoors..nice!
Scot
Ehhhh, well, it's still not idea for the plants (I can't afford to have it be 40 degrees in there, both because of the heating bill and because it'd kill my tropicals), but like I said, I think it's just enough to spark the "Oh, hey, it's winter, better go dormant!" feelings in the plants, lol.
But it's all going to change. For Christmas, I get to build a greenhouse in our basement! Woot!
But it's all going to change. For Christmas, I get to build a greenhouse in our basement! Woot!
The window isn't open, but the photoperiod has naturally decreased.
It does seem to have slowed down it's growth, but I don't know if it's in a true dormancy.
---------- Post added at 07:40 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:39 AM ----------
Although the window has only been close recently--I've been gettin too cold at night. Maybe it is dormant?
It does seem to have slowed down it's growth, but I don't know if it's in a true dormancy.
---------- Post added at 07:40 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:39 AM ----------
Although the window has only been close recently--I've been gettin too cold at night. Maybe it is dormant?
Everyone has birds and squirrels..that alone isnt reason enough to keep them indoors..
I have read about people having problems with humans..they cant keep their plants outdoors because of idiot neighbors and general riff-raff, but if your only problem is birds and squirrels, then your plants should definately be kept outside next year..
Squirrels generally arent a big problem..once or twice a year they might try to dig in larger pots (larger than 12" diameter) but in my experience they ignore pots smaller than that..
I have had bird problems..Mother Robins love long-fibre spagnum moss in the spring, they like to steal it for nesting material..although its only a problem for a few weeks in the spring, then its fine after that...but still, I had to cover my mini-bogs with green chicken wire..(its regular chicken wire that comes coated in a green vinyl/plastic coating)..its somewhat ugly, but after a month or so that plants grow up through the wire then it isnt very noticable..
since using the wire mesh, I have had no bird or squirrel problems at all..
and my yard is overrun with both!
There are easy ways to defeat the birds and squirrels..
its not really a major problem..
keeping the plants outdoors is MUCH more important than the minor nuisance of animals..
If your plants survive the winter indoors, next spring get them outside!
Scot
---------- Post added at 09:15 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:07 AM ----------
No, its probably not dormant at all..based on what you describe.
at this point all you can do is just keep it on the windowsill and hope for the best..dont even try to put it anywhere cold for dormancy..because its not dormant..
Many newly purchased plant are TC plants (tissue culture)..their internal clocks are all messed up anyway, they have no idea what season it is because they have never spent a year outdoors to "set the clock"..the plant will probably survive this first winter indoors..although it might weaken a bit..but assuming its still alive in the Spring, put it outside in April, leave it outside until November, then next late Autumn find a winter resting place for it, as it will be truly dormant by then, since it was outside all season..
this winter, just leave it alone and hope for the best..
where did you buy the plant? was it a "death cube" type plant?
Scot
It was sold in a plastic cube at meijer, though the box specifically said it needed to be taken out of the cube once purchase, which I did.
I'll not bother with dormancy this year and try next year.
---------- Post added at 11:02 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:56 AM ----------
I might have to try a big pot of outdoor Sarracenia next year.
---------- Post added at 11:42 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:02 AM ----------
And I actually like the birds ans squirrels, and use a birdfeeder so I can watch them.
I'll not bother with dormancy this year and try next year.
---------- Post added at 11:02 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:56 AM ----------
I might have to try a big pot of outdoor Sarracenia next year.
---------- Post added at 11:42 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:02 AM ----------
And I actually like the birds ans squirrels, and use a birdfeeder so I can watch them.
woo! another convert to outdoor growing! 
Welcome to the hobby jebbe, you have only just begun..
yeah, if it was a meiger "cube" plant, the plant has no idea what season it is..
it grew up in "Spring" inside a tube..was placed in its cube for shipping, probably spent a few weeks or months in the warm and dark of the store..then you bought it, gave it a better life, but its still only known Spring and Summer...it has no concept of autumn or winter..and it has to pass through autumn before it can survive winter..
I think just leaving it alone for now, on the windowsill, is the best option..
get it outside in the spring, and it will likely rebound for you then..
Scot
Welcome to the hobby jebbe, you have only just begun..
yeah, if it was a meiger "cube" plant, the plant has no idea what season it is..
it grew up in "Spring" inside a tube..was placed in its cube for shipping, probably spent a few weeks or months in the warm and dark of the store..then you bought it, gave it a better life, but its still only known Spring and Summer...it has no concept of autumn or winter..and it has to pass through autumn before it can survive winter..
I think just leaving it alone for now, on the windowsill, is the best option..
get it outside in the spring, and it will likely rebound for you then..
Scot
gill_za
Never Knows Best
I was lucky enough that several of my temperate Dews started forming hibernacula during autumn indoor. I dunno how that happened, probably during the period of time when I did not yet start turning on the heater in the apartment and also due to the reduced light cycle that I tried to mimic indoors with timers They are now resting in buckets in the refrigerator and seem to be ok.
One suggestion I was given is that you can try to force your plant to sleep by placing it in refrigerator overnight for several weeks in the row and then leaving it there completely once it shows signs of going dormant.
They are now resting in buckets in the refrigerator and seem to be ok. One suggestion I was given is that you can try to force your plant to sleep by placing it in refrigerator overnight for several weeks in the row and then leaving it there completely once it shows signs of going dormant.
Given that it's a "Death-cube" plant and thus is probably "confused" as is, I think I'll leave it alone, hope for the best, and then outdoors it next spring.
---------- Post added at 08:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:14 PM ----------
My Drosera spatulata I don't even need to do anything with, since it doesn't need any dormancy.
---------- Post added at 08:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:14 PM ----------
My Drosera spatulata I don't even need to do anything with, since it doesn't need any dormancy.
porch mini-greenhouse
i think a good option to try would be to repot your plant in a much bigger pot (more wide than deep) - keeping all the curent soil and roots intact.
if you could create a miniature greenhouse to "insulate" the plant (and the extra soil is to insulate the roots) then your plant could stand a chance out on your porch - depending on how cold it gets! If your winter is pretty crazy, there may be no options for you. But im thinking... maybe 20 degrees? could be tolerable.
also it would be help to grow other winter growing plants - in other pots - inside this mini greenhouse alongside your vft.
the purpose of all of this is to insulate your plants, reduce changes in temperature, and maintain a more acceptable minimum.
while all of these things will produce negligable diffrences on their own, together they may help in your desire for an acceptable temperature (35 degrees or so)
recap:
-more soil to protect the roots
-plastic liner or otherwise to create a 'greenhouse'
-other plants to grow inside the greenhouse alongside it - growth creates warmth as waste
the final option would be to put a single bulb inside the greenhouse with it, to raise the temperature. not a grow bulb, as you dont want too much light, youre mostly interested in the ten or so degrees a light within a contained area will raise the temperature.
i hope this helps, or fosters some new ideas for you! good luck!
---------- Post added at 06:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:48 PM ----------
excellent suggestion
i think a good option to try would be to repot your plant in a much bigger pot (more wide than deep) - keeping all the curent soil and roots intact.
if you could create a miniature greenhouse to "insulate" the plant (and the extra soil is to insulate the roots) then your plant could stand a chance out on your porch - depending on how cold it gets! If your winter is pretty crazy, there may be no options for you. But im thinking... maybe 20 degrees? could be tolerable.
also it would be help to grow other winter growing plants - in other pots - inside this mini greenhouse alongside your vft.
the purpose of all of this is to insulate your plants, reduce changes in temperature, and maintain a more acceptable minimum.
while all of these things will produce negligable diffrences on their own, together they may help in your desire for an acceptable temperature (35 degrees or so)
recap:
-more soil to protect the roots
-plastic liner or otherwise to create a 'greenhouse'
-other plants to grow inside the greenhouse alongside it - growth creates warmth as waste
the final option would be to put a single bulb inside the greenhouse with it, to raise the temperature. not a grow bulb, as you dont want too much light, youre mostly interested in the ten or so degrees a light within a contained area will raise the temperature.
i hope this helps, or fosters some new ideas for you! good luck!
---------- Post added at 06:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:48 PM ----------
excellent suggestion
