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Thread: How do i?....

  1. #9
    trixie7777
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    I live in Michigan... I wouldn't be starting off with seed's or bulbs. I would be getting a plant all ready for growing up more. It's cold here in the winter and isn't that okay for them if I were to put them in the windowsill with light. It wouldn't be to cold, it should just be right? Or am I really wrong. I only say this because in Dormancy can't you put them in the refridgerator and the windowsill would bascily be the same thing, but with some light.

  2. #10
    scottychaos's Avatar
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    Quote (trixie7777 @ Sep. 15 2003,2:29)
    I live in Michigan... I wouldn't be starting off with seed's or bulbs. I would be getting a plant all ready for growing up more. It's cold here in the winter and isn't that okay for them if I were to put them in the windowsill with light. It wouldn't be to cold, it should just be right? Or am I really wrong. I only say this because in Dormancy can't you put them in the refridgerator and the windowsill would bascily be the same thing, but with some light.[/QUOTE]
    yeah, that would all be fine, if you really want to buy new plants just to have them go dormant! [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif[/img]
    nothing wrong with that I guess..
    I just thought you would get more satisfaction getting new plants in the spring..and having a whole growing season to learn about them..but you can them now if you like!
    not a problem..
    (I have a friend just getting interested in Bonsai..I told her the same thing, wait until Spring to buy a tree! spend all winter reading books about Bonsai![img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif[/img]

    if the air near the window stays 35-45 degrees in the winter, that would be fine for dormancy. if its just a "regular" windowsill in the kitchen, living room or bedroom, it will probably be far too warm, unless your windows are unusually drafty! if its in a cellar or attic, or a room that is not heated and not normally meant for human occupation, that would be better. you really need to have quite cold air around your plants! it needs to be as cold as a refrigrator..
    If you could keep a gallon of milk fresh next to your plants,
    (as fresh as it would stay in the fridge)
    thats ideal! if the milk would go bad in 3 days or less, its too warm..I wouldnt go above 45 degrees for dormancy..

    there are also lots of CPs that need no dormancy at all!
    Nepenthes and many sundews (Drosera Capensis for example)
    dont need any dormancy at all, they can be grown all winter.
    although Nepenthes are often considered "advanced"..because they generally harder to care for than other CPs, and are more demanding in their requirements..but some species are rather easy to grow.

    Drosera Capensis is probably the easiest CP of them all!
    just give it a tray of water (distilled or rain water)
    and a bright windowsill, and its good to go forever!

    Scot

  3. #11
    VFT and Drosera lover vft guy in SJ's Avatar
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    Quote (scottychaos @ Sep. 15 2003,11:51)
    you really need to have quite cold air around your plants! it needs to be as cold as a refrigrator..
    If you could keep a gallon of milk fresh next to your plants,
    (as fresh as it would stay in the fridge)
    thats ideal! if the milk would go bad in 3 days or less, its too warm..I wouldnt go above 45 degrees for dormancy..[/QUOTE]
    I would have to disagree with you on this point Scot. VFTs in habitat regularly get daytime temps in dormancy in the upper 50's even as high as the low 70s on occasion. Imho photoperiod is the main trigger for dormancy, not temperature, although the 2 are interlinked. I agree that plants grown indoors (generally most people dont let their homes get much cooler than the 60's) will be too warm for dormancy. A blanket statement that says never get them warmer than 45 is not entirely accurate, and can be confusing to many of the less experienced growers.

    Trixie, for more information on dormancy for VFTs please read the FAQ pages. I posted the link in my earlier reply.

    Good luck
    Steve
    There are only 2 infinite things... the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not too sure about the universe.

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    Yeah, isn't 35-42 or 45 degrees the range that would be considered a deep dormancy and require a lot less light? This would normally be the range in a refrigerator.
    Lithops care info: If you take care of it, it will die.

  5. #13
    scottychaos's Avatar
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    Steve,
    I have to disagree that photoperiod is "the main trigger" [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif[/img]

    IMO, Temperature is FAR more important than photoperiod/amount of light..probably temp would rate 90%, and light only 10%, as far as "importance" for dormancy..(I just made those numbers up, no real scientific numbers there&#33[img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif[/img]

    look at this this way..
    Winters in the US generally have 2 parts, lower temps and less light.
    yes both are a factor, but lets suppose something goes wrong, and we get 2 (hypothetical) really unusual winters.


    Unusual winter #1.
    light level/photoperiod drops as usual, but for some reason temps dont drop! temps stay in the 80's all winter!
    so we have "winter light" but "summer temps"
    will the plants go dormant?
    no, not at all..the high temp will make them just keep growing.
    it will basically be summer with less light.
    no real dormancy.

    Unusual winter #2.
    Temps drop as usual, but for some reason light levels stay the same! there is no decrease in photoperiod, it stays bright and sunny all winter, but temps fall to the 30's and 40's..
    will the plants go dormant?
    "summer light" but "winter temps"
    now the plants will go dormant!
    the cool temps will trigger dormancy.
    they will go dormant, but still have plenty of light..
    result will still be dormancy..

    I agree that temp and photoperiod are both a factor, but temp is FAR more important then photoperiod..

    if you have a bright but cool winter, you will get dormancy.
    if you have a dark and cool winter, you will get dormancy.
    if you have a dark but warm winter, you will not get dormancy.
    if you have a bright but warm winter, you will not get dormancy.
    making temp the more important factor..

    if there is a choice between "darker and warmer"
    or "brighter and colder", I would go for colder every time!
    my plants get cold and NO light for their entire dormancy..(fridge)..cool temps do it, light isnt a factor at all..(for the fridge method)

    I meant 45 as an *ideal* temp..50-60 is far too warm IMO.
    yes in the "wild" it might get into the 60's during the winter..but the *average* temp is 45! that should be the target..personally I would shoot for 40 as an average! lets say ideally lowest temp (for indoors windowsill dormancy) should not get much below freezing, and the higest ever, on a particularry warm winter day, shouldnt hit much more than 60..but then it should cool back down into the 40's again!
    if you tried 60 ALL winter long, 60 degrees all the time, the plants definately would not go dormant..
    your average, including high and low swings, should be in the 40's..thats what they get in the wild..

    here is a page with some Wilmington info:
    http://www.navi-gator.com/wilmington...on/weather.htm

    it says "average high 55, average low 34" for January, the coldest month..
    but only a very small percentage of a day is AT the actual high or low for the day..23 hours a day it somewhere in between the 2 extremes..meaning, somewhere in the mid 40's!
    im standing by 45 degrees as the ideal! [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif[/img]
    the average.
    the goal.
    the "target to shoot for"..

    Scot

  6. #14
    trixie7777
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    thanks everyone.... I think I'll wait till spring. Just to be safe.

    Jenny

  7. #15
    Tony Paroubek's Avatar
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    Quote
    Unusual winter #1.
    light level/photoperiod drops as usual, but for some reason temps dont drop! temps stay in the 80's all winter!
    so we have "winter light" but "summer temps"
    will the plants go dormant?
    no, not at all..the high temp will make them just keep growing.
    it will basically be summer with less light.
    no real dormancy.

    Unusual winter #2.
    Temps drop as usual, but for some reason light levels stay the same! there is no decrease in photoperiod, it stays bright and sunny all winter, but temps fall to the 30's and 40's..
    will the plants go dormant?
    "summer light" but "winter temps"
    now the plants will go dormant!
    the cool temps will trigger dormancy.
    they will go dormant, but still have plenty of light..
    result will still be dormancy..

    I agree that temp and photoperiod are both a factor, but temp is FAR more important then photoperiod..

    if you have a bright but cool winter, you will get dormancy.
    if you have a dark but warm winter, you will not get dormancy.
    making temp the more important factor..[/QUOTE]

    Are you sure about that? Have you tried it or have studies that have shown that to be the case?

    While it is true that many plant processes are intertwined.
    Life of the Green Plant Galston, Davies, Satter conclude page 334:
    "The plant's measurement of seasonal changes through photoperiodism involves not only the sensing of light and dark signals, but also referral of these signals to an endogenous biological clock, whose existence is indicated by overt circadian rhythms. Rhythms have been noted in many different processes, including leaf movements, rates of photosynthesis, cell division and bioluminescence in algae, and the activity of some cellular enzymes. While the amplitude and phase of rhythmic oscillations are temperture sensitive, the period of most rhythmic events is essentially temperature independent."

    Tony
    Is that a Nepenthes in your pocket or you just happy to see me?

  8. #16
    VFT and Drosera lover vft guy in SJ's Avatar
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    Hey Scot,
    What are you basing this information on? My personal experience with VFTs contradicts what you are saying. As you know I live in California, and right now my daytime temps are averaging about 80-85 (even had a couple days last week in the 100's), and nighttime temps are generally in the low 60's. My VFTs are well into the start of dormancy now. All of them have produced several of the shorter fatter winter leaves and I expect they will be happily slumbering by early October.
    Same thing in Spring when they begin to awaken. This year my plants all emerged from dormancy in early February, long before the warmer spring/summer temps arrived. As soon as the days started getting longer the plants woke up.

    "I meant 45 as an *ideal* temp..50-60 is far too warm IMO.
    yes in the "wild" it might get into the 60's during the winter..but the *average* temp is 45! that should be the target..personally I would shoot for 40 as an average!"
    OK refering from your source of average hi/low temps for Wilmington NC. the Average high temp is 55. to make the math simple we will just say in a 7 day period, there are 2 days of 65, 1 day of 60, 1 day of 55, 1 day of 50, and 2 days of 45. there is quite a big swing in actual daytime temps there, but the AVERAGE of the 7 day total65+65+60+55+50+45+45) / 7 = 55 degrees. Same formula applies to lows.
    My point on this is, lets try not to focus too hard on "constants" remember nature is anything BUT constant. There will always be extremes and exceptions to the rules. The best we can do as growers is to try to provide for our plants the closest to nature that we can givin our personal conditions.

    Steve
    There are only 2 infinite things... the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not too sure about the universe.

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