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Thread: How do i?....

  1. #17
    scottychaos's Avatar
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    well last December roses and dandelions were still blooming..(or was that 2 years ago already?)
    because it stayed unusually warm..
    light levels still dropped as normal.

    This past Spring was "late"..a month late!
    it wasnt photoperiod that caused it..photoperiod was exactly the same as every other spring..it was 100% temperature that did it...a very "cold spring"..winter holding on later than normal..snow in April..it was all temp's doing, not light.


    When I bring my plants out of the refrigrator in February and put them in front of a window, they start growing.
    plants outside, getting the same light but colder temps, dont start growing until April.

    Spring can be "early or late" any given year..the difference is always temp, the light levels change exactly the same every year. Same with early or late autumn..always temp, never light.

    people start Tomato seeds early, in a windowsill indoors, in February or March, they always start growing indoors..
    they wouldnt start growing outdoors..light levels are the same, only temp is different..etc..

    if you take seeds of any local plant, trees, vegetables, Cps, whatever, plant them in January, when there is 4 feet of snow outside and 10 degreesF every night, and put one pot indoors next to a window, natural light only, and put the other pot outdoors, the seeds indoors will always sprout, in January, the seeds outdoors never will.
    same light, different temps..

    same light and warm = growth.
    same light and cold = no growth (dormancy)

    I know both are a factor! im not saying light levels *dont* help trigger dormancy..im just saying temp is FAR FAR more important than light level! [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif[/img] [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif[/img]

    Scot

  2. #18
    Moderator Schmoderator Fluorescent fluorite, England PlantAKiss's Avatar
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    Umm...did anybody notice Jenny got scared off? [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif[/img]

    Jenny, if you are still around...it is perfectly fine to buy your plant (I'm assuming its a Venus flytrap) now. There are a couple more months before it would need dormancy and that's a lot of time to enjoy your plant and learn how to care for it.

    Dormancy isn't a huge issue...if its in a window where light levels will change and its kept pretty cool, that should work. And you can always put it in the fridge too.

    There are other CPs for you to try as well that don't require dormancy...like nepenthes and many sundews and pings.

    So don't give up on your idea of growing CPs. [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif[/img]

    Suzanne
    "Fox terriers are born with about four times as much original sin in them as other dogs." - Jerome K. Jerome

  3. #19
    scottychaos's Avatar
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    Quote (vft guy in SJ @ Sep. 15 2003,4:32)
    My point on this is, lets try not to focus too hard on "constants" remember nature is anything BUT constant. There will always be extremes and exceptions to the rules. The best we can do as growers is to try to provide for our plants the closest to nature that we can givin our personal conditions.

    Steve[/QUOTE]
    Steve, I agree..
    im just saying there is a range that is "too warm" for dormancy..there is a range that is "too cold"..
    and there is a range that is "just right"!

    if someone said, "my windowsill averages 45 degrees in the winter..maybe a range between 35 and 55, is that good?"
    I would say "prefect"!

    but if someone said ""my windowsill averages 60 degrees in the winter..maybe a range between 50 and 70, is that good?"
    I would say "no way..too warm"

    30's and 40's excellent.
    40's and 50's ok.
    50's and 60's too warm, but ok if its the best you can do.
    70's too warm without question.


    how about if I said "if your winter temps fall anywhere between 30 and 60 degrees, (for indoors) with 30 as the lowest, and 60 as the highest, with the majority of the time somewhere in between."
    would everyone agree that is reasonable?
    and outside of those ranges is too warm or too cold?

    I know outside they can often take even colder temps, into the 20's, but that is with heavy insulation..im talking about indoors only right now, where temps can change quicker than outdoors under heavy mulch..

    Scot

  4. #20

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    I may add that VFTs can skip dormancy and still live, though not quite as vigorously as they would had they gotten rest.

    My VFT that I obtained last October from the local home improvement store did fine skipping dormancy. Personally, if it were my first plant, I would not worry too much about dormancy and just grow it as you would regularly (provided you can keep the temperature decent).

    SF Give it a shot, you may be pleasantly surprised!

  5. #21
    scottychaos's Avatar
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    yeah Jenny!
    Dont go! [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif[/img]

    we are just arguing trivial nuances! [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif[/img]
    (well, maybe not quite "trivial",,but its not really a big deal anyway&#33[img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif[/img]

    if you wanted to try the refrigrator method for Dormancy this year, you could get a VFT now and leave it outside until November! (bring it in at night if a heavy frost is predicted though..) (or put it in your basement window in November..)thats still a good 4-6 weeks of "growing season"!
    im pretty much in the exact same climate as you (Rochester, NY) and my plants go into the fridge in late October and come out mid-February..then they stay indoors from mid-Feb until its "frost free"..usually late April or early May..then they go outside until late October again!
    We get a really good season, even this far north...

    So dont go away!
    everyone here will still be glad to help with any questions you will ever have..

    Scot

  6. #22

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    My 2 cents is this:

    I believe light is more important and the trigger, while you may get an unseasonably warm winter, I doubt the earth is going to change it's rotation. The problem is both are going to contribute to slowed growth. But because plants are already slowly going into dormancy, yet the temperatures are still adequate for growing, would imply that light is the trigger. Cold weather has always been related to low light, but comparing across species isn't going to help.

    Somebody just needs to do a science fair project on this.

    Take a couple VFTs, in cold and winter light.
    Take a couple VFTs, in cold and summer light.
    Take a couple VFTs, in warm and winter light.
    Take a couple VFTs, in warm and winter light.

    My hypothesis, is the slowed growth is from the lack of heat, but low light will also require the plant to use its reserves even if it is still growing. I guess, it comes down to your definition of dormancy I guess. Mine is the requirement for plants to use their 'reserves.' Which I believe both cold and low lights would require it to do.

    Man, if I had 100 VFTs, some computer controlled timed lights, and some computer controlled heated chambers, I'd put all these 'theories' to test. [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif[/img]

  7. #23
    Tony Paroubek's Avatar
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    Scott,
    Ok lets see here..I thought we were talking about inducing dormancy? Many of your examples are situations of breaking dormancy.

    Dormancy is more than a rate of visible growth. Cold temperatures retard growth yes. This does not mean the plant is dormant. You can take an actively growing VFT in the middle of the Summer and toss it in the fridge. It will grow slowly or not at all but it is not dormant!

    Late Spring from colder temperatures. Sure cold temperatures slow down plant growth and retard the growth phase.

    Forcing seeds on windowsills vs tossing outside.. Again not dormancy. Your talking about inducing germination and the conditions needed for it. Or if you will.. breaking dormancy.

    Same situation for plants removed from a fridge and forced out of dormancy vs plants outdoors in a frozen bog.

    Indian Summer.. Roses, dandelions etc continuing to grow and bloom longer than usual because of a warm Fall. These are examples of daylength neutral plants which will grow and flower regardless of daylength. Their growth rate again is temperature dependent. Have a look at the other plants which are not this type of plant (woody trees, shrubs etc) They will go dormant.. ie drop leaves, form winter buds etc, regardless of temperature. It is 100% dependent on daylength and will happen the same time every year.
    Tony
    Is that a Nepenthes in your pocket or you just happy to see me?

  8. #24
    scottychaos's Avatar
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    Tony,
    yes I was talking about breaking dormancy, and inducing dormancy, because both are examples of why temp is important for both..and not so much photoperiod..

    Roses are temp dependant but trees are light dependant?
    sorry, but I cant buy that! [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/confused.gif[/img]

    any plant native to say..Pennsylvania (just to pick a place)
    Roses, dandelions, maple trees, all stop growing in the autumn due to the same cues, cooler temps and less light..
    but if it stays warm a maple tree WONT still go dormant!
    it also requires cooler temps to go dormant, same as the dandelion or the rose..in other words, if the temps didnt drop, the maple tree wont change color and drop its leaves and go dormant..it also needs the cool temps to trigger dormancy..
    photoperiod alone isnt enough to do it..

    Roses will keep growing if it is warm, but photoperiod decreases, so will dandelions..I agree with you there..
    but so will EVERYTHING else! trees, shrubs, etc..

    I know this for a fact..we have a local nursery that attempts to grow and sell Bonsai..(they arent very good at it)they mix tropical and "hardy" bonsai in the same indoor dispaly area..which is bad for the native trees! one winter a few years ago I went there and noticed they neglected to take a whole bunch of trees outside in the fall! it was mid-winter and Japanese maples, Trident Maples, Beech, etc, were all still in leaf and looking very sickly..
    they were inside a greenhouse, not getting much artificial light..so they were getting pretty much "normal" winter light..they were just inside a tropical greenhouse with all the other houseplants! far too warm!
    no dormancy came for them..too warm.
    which again brings me back to:

    NEED cold! light not as important! [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif[/img]

    This whole theory (of mine) is very easy to prove..
    (that temp is more important to dormancy that photoperiod)
    just take one of your CPs, Sarracenia or VFT, and dont put it into dormancy with the rest..(whatever you do for dormancy, outside, garage, fridge, whatever)
    instead take this one plant and put it in a bright window in your livingroom all winter! keep it a nice 68-70 degrees along with yourself!
    will it go dormant??

    Scot

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