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Thread: Fang

  1. #9
    BobZ's Avatar
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    Check my Dionaea photo links page. There are 2 links to photos of VFT "Fang"
    http://www.humboldt.edu/~rrz7001/Dionaea.html

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    Yah, but their isn't any scail or info on the picture pages. I've been wondering for a while what makes them distinctive if anything beyond the extrended red pygment.
    There is no item greater in value than life, for without life value would cease to exist.
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    Those pictures are of young specimens. The one I saw had traps about twice that size. I'll try to get a picture this Saturday, the owner of the greenhouse owes me a favor, and I'm sure he wont mind. It the same guy who had that 18 inch diameter D. binata which I posted some time ago.

  4. #12
    BobZ's Avatar
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    As far as I can tell "Fang" and other such names as "All Green", "All Red", Atlanta", "Bart Simpson", etc are not validly described and published cultivar names. To be sure, a bunch of folks are growing, selling, and trading plants with these names and have posted photos of them on web pages. Without a published description, I wonder how consistent the various plants named, for example, "All Red" are.

    In another thread, there was a discussion about 'Red Dragon' seedlings. I, myself, have grown 'Red Dragon' selfed seedlings and can verify that the offspring can be quite variable and not consistent with the parent -- and should not be called 'Red Dragon', unless they conform to the published description. The seed and plants could be called 'Red Dragon' x 'Red Dragon', which gives the correct warnings that they may be variable.

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    Quote (BobZ @ April 16 2003,08:45)
    As far as I can tell "Fang" and other such names as "All Green", "All Red", Atlanta", "Bart Simpson", etc are not validly described and published cultivar names. To be sure, a bunch of folks are growing, selling, and trading plants with these names and have posted photos of them on web pages. Without a published description, I wonder how consistent the various plants named, for example, "All Red" are.

    In another thread, there was a discussion about 'Red Dragon' seedlings. I, myself, have grown 'Red Dragon' selfed seedlings and can verify that the offspring can be quite variable and not consistent with the parent -- and should not be called 'Red Dragon', unless they conform to the published description. The seed and plants could be called 'Red Dragon' x 'Red Dragon', which gives the correct warnings that they may be variable.[/QUOTE]
    Yes, it is hard to tell what is what when none have a published discription.

    A note on red dragons: They should breed true, but like any breed, not all will be 'show' quality. I also suspect a large number of red dragons are no longer pure bred as people prefer to clone now (aka their are probubly plenty of red dragon look alike hybreds sold under the name). Now, I don't know if the published info on this varient is a bunch of bogus stuff, but what I said is true if it is true.
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  6. #14
    It's been one of dem days BigCarnivourKid's Avatar
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    Quote (Darcie @ April 16 2003,10:46)
    A note on red dragons: They should breed true, but like any breed, not all will be 'show' quality.[/QUOTE]
    Red Dragon is a cultivar or cultivated variety. It took years of selective breeding and inbreeding to develope the plant we all know as Red Dragon. The inbreeding is one of the reasons the Red Dragon is not as vigorous as some of the other varieties. The only way to reproduce it is vegetatively, ie, leaf cuttings, offshoots, and TC. That doesn't mean that its seeds won't produce a plant that resembles a true Red Dragon. But technically it is not a true Red Dragon as it is not a clone of the original Red Dragon. Anything produced sexually is technically refered to as an F1 seed/plant for the first generation, F2 for the second generation and so on. This indicates that it has Red Dragon parentage but is not a true Red Dragon. This is true of the other VFT cultivars also. None of them breed true. All you have is VFT seed with the influence of their particular parent.

    There was another thread posted not to long ago about this same subject. I will try to find it and post the link to it.
    ---Steve Allinger---

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  7. #15
    It's been one of dem days BigCarnivourKid's Avatar
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    Eureka! Here's the post I was looking for.

    This is from Drosera x "california sunset", Seed.

    Quote (Vic Brown @ Nov. 03 2002,2:28)
    D. filiformis x 'California Sunset' is a hybrid which has been selected for it's exceptional vigor and beauty. It is an F1 hybrid, the result of crossing ssp. filiformis 'Florida Giant' with ssp. tracyi. If you allow it to self-fertilize, the resultant offspring (F2 hybrids) will not be true to the parent plant, they might closely resemble it, but are unlikely to match it for good looks.

    It is wrong to pass off F2 hybrids as the original cultivar, as well as introucing mis-named, inferior plants into cultivation, causing confusion, it is very disrepectful to the original plant breeder and all the effort they have put into hybridizing, selecting and vegetatively cultivating a plant, hence the name 'cultivar' . This goes for all plants, not just CP's. If you do produce F2 hybrids, hey they're your plants to do what you want with after all, make sure any plants you distribute are clearly labelled as F2 hybrids and not as the original cultivar. There are already far to many dubious versions of plant cultivars out in CP land as it is! For example, I've seen loads of D. binata 'Marston Dragons' in collections over here in the UK that are clearly not the true cultivar, and are all almost certainly the result of seed produced by selfing the genuine plant somewhere along the line. I think I've the real McCoy, it came from Marston's. There's nothing wrong with producing F2 hybrids if you want, as long as you don't think they are or tell others they are the parent hybrid.

    Cheers
    Vic[/QUOTE]

    Edit 4-16-03 @ 9:28
    Looks like I need to change F1 in my previous post to F2 and change F2 to F3. [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif[/img]
    ---Steve Allinger---

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  8. #16

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    Tim,

    Do you happen to know if the the owner of the greenhouse attends the LACPS meetings? I remember a person who frequently sells large healthy P.moranensis, and D.spathulata who says that he owns a small nursery in central or N.California.

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