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Thread: Venus-flytrap

  1. #9
    God must have an interesting sense of humor Wesley's Avatar
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    To my knowledge this may be the oldest topic in the vft forum, and I wanted to bring it back because I thought it would be interesting for you guys to see the oldest topic in this section. HEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEH [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif[/img] [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif[/img] [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif[/img] [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif[/img] [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rolleyes.gif[/img]

    Toodles [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif[/img] ,
    Wes

    P.S. I didn't you are a Christian, Rampuppy.

    P.S.S. I don't care what, where, or how they came.(Well really I do but... that's up to me and my beliefs) I'm just glad they did.
    ~Wes~

    My plants are going green to save the environment

    My Growlist

  2. #10

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    Thumbs up

    I'm not about to get drawn into any debate over religion but considering the marvelous design of the VFT it appears to me there must be some kind of intelligence behind it's development.

    Consider the parameters that must have been considered beforehand in order for for the VFT to have come about in the form we find it:

    1. a nutrient deficiency in the soil had to be recognized.
    2. the ability for insects to provide the lacking nutrients had to have been understood.
    3. the fact that insects could be captured and digested to gain these missing nutrients needed to be realized.
    4. a trapping mechanism that can swiftly and efficiently grab and hold,then digest and adsorb insects needed to be designed.
    5. the trapping mechanism having the ability to discriminate between worthwhile insects and those not worth capturing /holding for digestion and also between nonliving foreign objects needed to be designed.

    All this cause and effect reasoning is a bit much for me to believe the VFT is simply the end product of mindless random evolution.

    What that intelligence behind the VFT's development is...is a rather large question that each individual must answer for themself.


  3. #11
    Capslock's Avatar
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    OK, I see this isn't going to make me popular, but...

    Evolution is proven. The exact mechanisms are not, as hypotheses from gradualism to puctuated equilibrium are proposed and tested against the evidence constantly. There are a lot of myths out there that are exploded by simply looking into it. Speciation and evolution are observed in the lab in repeatable experiments. Transitional forms abound. Seminole, your parameters are rife with loaded and misleading language like "recognized", "understood", "realized", etc.

    This is simply what can be seen by simple investigation. And, as many of my Christian friends and family tell me, it is in no way contradictory to their religion, unless the story of Genesis in the Bible is taken in the most literal way. But this is a scientific hobby where it's probably important to be accurate if we're going to gain any knowledge.

    Capslock
    Malo Periculosam Libertatem Quam Quietum Servitium

    My photos are copyright-free and public domain

  4. #12

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    Well said. [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif[/img]
    ...No snowflake ever lands in the wrong place...

  5. #13

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    First of all, evolution is not proven. It is another theory of how the world got the way it is. Scientists are continually coming up with new facts that stump evolutionists, forcing them to come up with a new variation.

    Quote
    Speciation and evolution are observed in the lab in repeatable experiments[/QUOTE] There is a difference in evolution. There is micro evolution and there is macro evolution. Micro evolution is the change shown in a lab, within a species, such as longer hair, slightly different coloration. An example of this would be as pointed out earlier, moths that are born with dark brown coloration would be able to hide better in the city, thus increasing their chance of survival. The moths with dark brown coloration would breed and live longer than those lighter ones, so there would be darker ones in the city as opposed to lighter ones in the fields. Macro evolution on the other hand is between species, such as from fish to lizards. This has Never been shown in a lab, thus our lack of links between species today. Another point. Ask your Christian friends how when it says in Genesis that God created the heavens and the earth, they can interpret this to mean evolution? It says all over the Bible, "The heavens were created by your hand." "Man was created in God's image", " God saw all that He created and it was good." Now you mentioned that transitional forms abound. Would you mind telling me one the furtherance of my knowledge? This is a cool post, keep it up! [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif[/img]

  6. #14

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    SnowyFalcon,

    i was going to write the same type of response that you wrote to capslock but you beat me to it!! I am also a Christian and i believe natural selection is true but evolution is not. Natural selection says that only the strongest will survive. An example of this is the brown and white moths mentioned in several other posts. The brown moth was able to live longer in the city because of its brown color. This color allowed it to blend in with its surroundings and kept it from being eaten by a predator, like a bird. The white moths would stand out and would not survive. Soon all the white moths were eaten and the brown moths were left to survive. This is what i believe happened. I do not believe that the white moths were able to think, "Hmmm, if i were brown then i would survive," and then they evolved.

    This is a very interesting post to start discussion. I hope i did not offend anyone as this was not my intention, I merely wanted to state my beliefs. [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif[/img]



    -buckeye

  7. #15

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    Capslock, I must say though, I'm impressed with your site so far. I too am trying to figure out HTML languaging and yours looks good! Keep up the good work!

  8. #16

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    Cool

    Either learn to live with the changing enviroment or die. The vft adjusted and started to use bugs as a source of nutrients. That is my thought. It is unfortunate that many plants/animals can not adjust to the changing enviroment due to humans screwing things up (I don't think vft's can handle it either).

    My two dollars fifty three cents worth of info,
    Travis
    \"Some cause happiness wherever they go; others, whenever they go.\"
    -- Oscar Wilde

    http://www.nasarracenia.org/

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