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Thread: Venus-flytrap

  1. #25

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    Evolve, evolved, evolving. 1. To change or develop gradually. 2. Biol. To develop by evolutionary processes. 3. To work out: develop -evolve a system-

    Adapt - To adjust or become adjusted to a specified use or situation. [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif[/img]
    \"Some cause happiness wherever they go; others, whenever they go.\"
    -- Oscar Wilde

    http://www.nasarracenia.org/

  2. #26

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    Hmm, not sure I should even been posting in this. Oh weell, here I go. (Standard disclaimer of this is my belief and you are ont obligated to believe it yourself.)

    I've always had trouble with evolution. The thought of random changes developing over millions of years leading up to sentient beings capable of pondering the random changes over millions of years leading up to their being, seems kind of degrading (In my opinion) I guess everyone wants to feel special in some way and this must be my way.

    I've tended not to favor evolution though after my dad's speech on the woodpecker (you may have heard this before.) My father was a chemical engineer for the Air Force, so I always considered him "science minded" and so thought it was odd for him to say something anti-evolution (so to speak)

    Here it is:
    If you start the woodpecker as just an average bird. It develops a sharp beak that it can pound into a tree to extract a bug. (Change 1) So it slams it beak into the tree and crushes it's skull, the bird dies. Well you get one that gets the beak and a thicker skull (Change 2) and it slams it's head into the tree to get the bug, it's thicker skull maintains it's shape but it's brain slams into it's skull and you get vegetable bird. So it develops a cushion to protect it's brain (change 3) It slams it's beak into the tree, skull and brain are fine, but it can't extract the bug, so it develops a longer tongue (change 4).

    That is 4 changes for this species to survive that would have to happen randomly at the same time. Wouldn't it have been simpler for the bird to stay the way it was and eat seeds?

    I just see life as way too complex for evolution. [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif[/img]

    As far as "Studies have shown..." that is too close to Urban Legend pattern for me. (Urban Legends say "My friend told me about this one guy in this one town..." ) I prefer to have more to go on, such as Who, What, When, Where, How, and Why. (Thanks for the links, btw [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif[/img] ) to make the evidence more credible (though for the side of Creationism it is more in looking for the experiments that disprove the hypothesis.)

    Anywho, that is just my thoughts. Take them for what you will. (Beside everyone already tells me I'm Crazy [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif[/img] )

  3. #27
    God must have an interesting sense of humor Wesley's Avatar
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    It looks pretty much like this topic is between Christianity and Evolution. I am a strong Christian. I'll talk about
    Quote
    It is more evolving over time (evolution) to meet the changing enviroment. Due to the lack of nutrients in the soil vft's (sundews, neps, sarrs, yada, yada) developed methods of catching insects for added source (an aid not requirment to live). I believe in the "Theroy of Evolution" and Nature always wins too . I also believe capslock and Seminole's point of view. [/QUOTE]

    In my view I find it quite impossible that a vft could possibly evolve. First: The Svage garden even says that a vft could live in those conditions but not reproduce. So if the first generation were "mutated" to fit those conditions in a small way, because in evolution it takes millions of years to evolve very much; they still could not reproduce yet. Only if they were the way they are now; could the have reprodeced further and evolve. Also, someone metioned mutated vfts. They have not started to evolve; they were genetically altered in tissue culture. You could allow it to cross, but the chances of it evolving into something better are 0-0.

    And last thing, if things are evolving wouldn't they find new creatures that started evolving millilons of years ago? Instead species are dissapearing and no species are appearing.

    Just my two cents. If I offended anyone I appologize, I am just stating my beliefs.

    Respectfully,
    Wes
    ~Wes~

    My plants are going green to save the environment

    My Growlist

  4. #28

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    Question

    This is my last post on this subject... [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif[/img] I am a Christian but also think plants/animals adapt and evolve to fit the changing environment. Look at ppl we have adapted to a way our way of life (houses, cars, and planes) while evolving smaller heads and walking straight up. We are also finding new species and plants every year (unfortunately by cutting down forest for new land is killing many more). I think evolution is something that takes years and years (not necessarily millions or thousands) and not a simple human life span. My thought is we have been around for a spec compared to earth which has been around for billions of years. I think things change, adapt, and evolve to better them selves over time.

    I also believe 99.9% of you on religion and how plant/animals are created. That is the great mystery of the flytrap and enjoy your opinions. [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif[/img] I am going to bow out and take a listen. [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif[/img] I in no way want to change your mind if you believe a certain way but always enjoy hearing them. I also believe I believe way too much [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif[/img] k/d.

    Travis
    [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif[/img]
    \"Some cause happiness wherever they go; others, whenever they go.\"
    -- Oscar Wilde

    http://www.nasarracenia.org/

  5. #29

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    I too am a Christian and this will be my last post on the subject as it seems to have exhausted its resources. I do have to disagree with Travis at one point though.
    Quote
    Look at ppl we have adapted to a way our way of life (houses, cars, and planes) while evolving smaller heads and walking straight up. [/QUOTE]
    Man has been the same shape with the same head size since the world began. The "neanderthal man" is nothing but a poor guy who had a disease ( I forget what). There are people today who have this disease which gives them a mishapen head and spine.
    Still the VFT can adapt (from the bogs to a greenhouse), but it is not going to develop and evolve new trapping methods because it suddenly realizes that most insects fly! It will stay a VFT till the end of this world, (which I won't go into&#33[img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif[/img].
    As to the earth being around for billions of years, it is impossible for very scientific reasons.
    1) The moon's distance from earth is increasing by 2 inches a year. Only two billion years ago, the moon would touch the earth. Starting now, it would only be 5 more billion before it is out of sight!

    2) The sun is receding by 1/10th of a percent every century, or one percent every 1000 years. If the sun existed only 100,000 years ago it would be TOUCHING the Earth. Very Very HOT! This is 1/10 of one billion years, not even enough time for one evolution.

    3) The earth's magnetic field has been decaying regularly since it was first measured in 1835. Dr. Thomas Barnes has shown with careful calculations that the earth's magnetic field would equal that of a star (where no life can exist) in only 10,000 years. Life on earth could not have existed earlier than 10,000 years ago.

    My belief is that the earth (and VFTs) was created between 6000-8000 years ago. This seems like a small number when compared to evolution's theory, but it really isn't when compared to history. Why do our records go back to only about 5000 BC and no farther?

    It seems to me that all the evidence points to Creationism over Evolutionism, but that is only my opinion. Y'all are entitled to your own free expresssion of belief. I have really enjoyed debating this subject and if others would like to take up where I left of, I would gladly watch.

    Respectfully,

    SF

  6. #30

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    Quote
    Man has been the same shape with the same head size since the world began. The "neanderthal man" is nothing but a poor guy who had a disease ( I forget what). There are people today who have this disease which gives them a mishapen head and spine.[/QUOTE]

    snowyfalcon-

    I think the disease you are thinking of is the same thing the famous Joseph Merrick, aka the elephant man, had.

    Here's the article i found on my encyclopia if anyone's interested:

    Joseph (Carey) Merrick; (1862-1890):

    Englishman disfigured by a disease that caused overgrowths over his skin and bone surfaces.

    His head was 3 ft (.9 m) around, with large bags of skin hanging from it, the jaw so deformed he could not speak clearly. One arm ended in a 12-in. (.3-m) wrist and a finlike hand. His legs were similarly deformed, and a defective hip made him lame. He escaped from a workhouse at 21 to join a freak show, where a London physician, Frederick Treves, discovered him and admitted him to London Hospital. He died in his sleep at 27 of accidental suffocation. His disease was probably the very rare Proteus syndrome.

    Just thought some might want to know. [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif[/img]


    -buckeye

  7. #31
    It's been one of dem days BigCarnivourKid's Avatar
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    In the end it all boils down to our believe and faith. Be it in the theory of evolution or creationism. Or something in between. Through it all we must choose our own path.

    [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/alien.gif[/img]
    ---Steve Allinger---

    How come chicken fingers are bigger than buffalo wings?

    My Grow List

  8. #32

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