What's new
TerraForums Venus Flytrap, Nepenthes, Drosera and more talk

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Venus-flytrap

  • Thread starter eplants02
  • Start date
  • #161
I am open to other interpretations, they just have to prove why the one I have is wrong first.  
biggrin.gif
  If the word 'day' means an age, then what about Methuselah in Genesis ch 5.  Did he really live longer than 969 years?  969 years X 365 days in a year, and if each day was actually an age, WOW the guy must have lived forever!!!  

As to the book, not yet.

The webpage, I may have missed the point, but why is that particular site relevant to this discussion?  I looked at it and couldn't find anything that applied here.

Was Noah a Babylonian?  It seems the story would have passed down from him.  

I'll be honest with you, I do not have enough evidence to argue against multiple writers for one book.  Why would there be multiple writers for one book though?  Why wouldn't they have added another book for the beginning and called it "Creation" or something?

SF
 
  • #162
(scottychaos @ July 24 2003,06:37)Belfrie,
excellent point!
who can say the Genesis "week" is the exact same time span as a "modern week"??
saying it must be the same as a week now is imposing more rules on God! God does not have to do what we say! *
wink.gif


travis,
what is going on in that new avatar??
wow.gif

what is being kicked?
and what does the word say? I cant make it out, it looks like "OWNED"..

Scot
"Who can say the Genesis "week" is the exact same time span as a 'modern week'?"

Hmm... Never thought of that
confused.gif
I remember reading somewhere in the Bible that 2,000 years is only one day to God... Or was it 20,000 years?
confused.gif
wow.gif
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • #163
I think this is the verse you are talking about.

Psalm 90:4: For a thousand years in Thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.

This means that God is outside of time, and only His creation is under this limitation. The millisecond something was created, time began.

SF
 
  • #164
(SnowyFalcon @ July 25 2003,5:57)*If I may ask, how are you going to "talk to God directly"? *The only way I know of doing this is prayer and Christ interceding for us.
Hi SF,

That's my point. No one can talk to God directly so nothing about God, the Bible, it's history can ever be proven beyond a doubt. For me to accept a literal interpretation of the Bible, someone or something that many many people here and now could all see and hear would have to appear and unquestionably provide hard evidence that "IT" and "ITs" book were 100% real and factual. Until that event happens -- for any God -- all religions are for me poetic attempts by humanity to explain the unknown through myth, imagination and creativity and, more importantly, failed attempts to project humanity's own self-image and psychological qualities out into the universe as the best of the best. In short, religions are the personification of humanity's love of its own ability to perceive, dream and think. They are monuments to our own consciousness. That said, I find most religions to be rather flawed and self-serving creations that both flatter and demonize humanity more than is real or beneficial, and either way, it is far more than humanity needs or deserves.

Bobby
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • #165
You make a good point. Okay this will be my last post on this subject so all I will put here is interesting FACTS about the Bible. The entire Old Testament was written by 250 B.c. We know this because of the Greek Septuagint, a copy of the Old Testament, was initiated by Ptolemy Philadelphius(285-246B.c) in his reign. This is a historical fact.

Fact 1: ...therefore, thus says the Lord God, "Behold, I am against you, O Tyre, and I will bring up many nations against you, as the sea brings up its waves. And they will destroy the walls of Tyre and break down her towers; and I will scrape her debris from her and make her a bare rock. She will be place for the spreading of nets in the midst of the sea, for I have spoken... Also her daughters on the mainland will be slain by the sword... I will bring upon tyre from the norht Nebuchadnezzaar king of Babylon... He will slay your daughters on the mainland by the sword; and he will make siege walls against you... Also, they will make a spoil of your riches...and throw your stones and your timbers into the the water...And I will make you a bare rock; you will be a place for the spreading of nets. You will be built no more.
Ezekiel 26:3-21

The Old Tesiment as mentioned above was finished by 250 B.c.. Most histiorians think that book was written around 580B.c.. notice how precice that prophecy is. It tells what city, that many nations will come against Tyre, and even tells the leader of the first nation. Tyre's fate is also prcice. It says that Tyre's debris will be thown into the ocean, that it won't be rebuilt, and that fisherman will spread their nets there to dry. Now during that time that prophecy would have been considered lunacy. Tyre was one of the greatest citiesof the world in that time. It was the most important trading centers in it's region. "According to Dr. Wallace Flemming, Tyre was founded more than 2,000 years before this prophecy was written." The city was built on an island off the coast of Syria. It had walls that were 150 ft. tall, and was mounted with battlements. So, this prophecy went against all human wisdom of that time. If the prophet had tried to "make up" a prophecy, they would have prdicted the fall of a much smaller and weaker place.

To see the fall of Tyre we need the history books. "According to the acient historian Herodotus, Nebuchadnezzer's seige of Tyre was from 585-572B.c.. During the siege he also was able to take the mainland city, but was not able to effectively attack the island city. Instead he just laid seige for 13 years to cut the supply line off. The presure made Tyre accept Babylonian rule. These fact are in perfect agreement with the prophecy. Since the siege occured very close to when the propecy was made, some may assume that the "prophecy" was written after the seige. But, the propecy continues, as does the city of Tyre. The prophecy says many nations will attack Tyre. It says Nebuchadnezzer will destroy the mainland city. But it also says that "they" will trow Tyre's stone and timber into the sea. It says they not he. The prophecy make a clear point that he is Nebuchadnezzer and that they is the nations. In 333B.c. Alexander the Great demanded that Trye give him occupancy of the city. The king of Tyre gave him occupancy of the city but would not allow him to bring soldiers into the city. This, thus forced Alexander to attack Tyre to gain full control of the city. Alexander had no ships "so he completely destroyed the mainland city and dumped all its debris into the ocean. There was so much debris that Alexander was able to construct a 200 ft wide bridge from the mainland city to the island city, making it possible to march sraight to Tyre and conquer it." The "bridge" was perdicted in the prophecy almast 250 years before it was built. The propecy spacifically states that Tyre's debis would be trown into the sea by someone other than Nebuchadnezzer, and it was. After Alexander, the Romans, the Moslems, and the Seleucide, and the crusaders all took turns conquering Tyre. After all that Tyre really does lie in ruins. "Today, old Tyre is, indeed, scraped down to bare rock. According to Nina Jidejian, 'The port [of Tyre] has become a haven today for fishing boats and a place for speading nets.

Only after around A.D. 600 hundred did Tyre became a place for the spreading of nets. That is pretty hard to guess so precicely and get it all corrcect down to the bare bone, especially a few centuries before it occured.

Later,
Wes

All material and quotes were provided by Exploring Creation With General Science By Dr. Jay L. Wile, and the Bible By God.
tounge.gif
biggrin.gif
wink.gif
 
  • #166
Wes,
interesting story about Tyre!
I had never heard that prophecy before.

but there is one thing I dont understand about the dates you provided.
you said the old testament was complete by 250 B.C.
and the seige of Tyre was 585-572B.c..

but..250 B.C. is 322 years AFTER 572 B.C.!
So if you say the old testament "predicted" the destruction of Tyre, how can that be if it possibly wasnt written until AFTER Tyre fell?

even if you say that specific *part* of the Old Testament was written about 580 B.C. :

"The Old Tesiment as mentioned above was finished by 250 B.c.. Most histiorians think that book was written around 580B.c.. notice how precice that prophecy is. "

580 is DURING the seige then! not before..
so according to everything you just wrote, the actual prophecy predicting the destruction of Tyre was either written during, or after, the destruction!
so that isnt really much of a prophecy is it?
confused.gif


Scot
 
  • #167
Hi Snowy Falcon,
The web page was a Christian teaching course that looks into as part of the course how the bible was written and ethics and issues oncerning science and faith..Also the origins of words and meanings from a Hebrew perspective that gets lost when translating into English etc etc.. I would recommend it. It strengthened my faith very much...
 
  • #168
I find it sad that so many people have made a decision about God and the bible, but they have never read it. All I can say is just read it, and I'm sure you will see the truth clearly. You will see the difference between man's wisdom and God's wisdom. In the past, my big turn off was the church. After many years, I finally foud a great church based on 1st century church teachings. The website is www.lote.org. Chip Ingram this the pastor for "Walk through the bible chuch" in Atlanta GA. and he has a radio broadcast called, "Living on the edge." Every sermon is great and what I call normal! I'm 28, and I have yet to find someone as close to this good. They have a great new testament "New beginers bible" for $2.00. It provides indepth side notes for easy learning. Try this bible and a few sermon series called "Why believe", "Seeing God w/ 20/20 vision", and "How to change for the better" Then check out "Knowledge of the Holly" by Packard. This is a foundational book for Christians. The "Why believe" series is based on facts, findings, etc, etc. Its a great start to understanding and follow up study. Just keep an open mind.
 
  • #169
(nightbreed @ July 28 2003,02:56)I find it sad that so many people have made a decision about God and the bible, but they have never read it. *All I can say is just read it, and I'm sure you will see the truth clearly.
Read the book "Blueprints" by Maitland A. Edey and Donald C. Johanson.
All I can say is just read it, and I'm sure you will see the truth clearly. Just keep an open mind.

Scot

wink.gif
rolleyes.gif
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • #170
Oops, typo, and another good point. Okay here we go again. Ezekiel was not written in 250 B.c.. I said the WHOLE Old Testament. Ezekiel was not written as the last book of the old testament. It was written between 593 and 571B.c.. So that left 593, 592, 591, 590, 589, 588, 587, and 586 before the seige. The seige began in 585B.c.. Anyway, even if Ezekiel was written in 250B.c. or 580B.c., it was not until AFTER A.d. 600 that fish nets were laid out to dry there. So it would not matter if the book was written after the siege. Also, it was not until 333B.c. that Alexander the Great attacked. That left about 100 years from 250 B.c.. Also what about the other people after Alexander? The Cruesaders and all them. That was way after 250B.c.. But then again, God wouldn't go through all that trouble if it were false, now would He?
wink.gif


Respectfully,
Wes

Oh, and if you have any more questions or comments, I want you to post them.
 
  • #171
Hi Wesley,

To tell you the truth I am not much interested in a God who provides prophecy for battles and fishnets. If it is true, it's a neat trick, but if carbon dating is questionable I do believe exact publication dates B.C. must have a bit of wiggle room. No, a God who will impress me is a God who heals the world. I guess that is why Judaism is the only religion that has ever made any sense to me. The rest seem to want to make make-believe real or have lost their human heart somewhere down through the ages. Judaism, at its best, always seems so warm and humane with a focus on the here and now and not on questions and ideas that can never be proven or made real. I'm not religious but I would pick Judaism if I was. Plus, I always trust the origin of things to be the closest to the truth and Judaism is the origin of Christianity and Islam. I like originals.

Bobby
 
  • #172
Biggun110, if you would just read the bible you would then understand God's goal. Until then, nothing is worse than an uneducated decision. He gave us free will and choice. Without suffering there would be no change. How many people do you know that when things are really going great turn to God. He is the creator and he created us in his image. I could give you hundreds of examples in everyday life. He loves us so much that he wants us to have a relationship with him. God is just and holy, so he sent his only son, to give us an example, he was the sacrifice, he died for us so that we could again have a relationship with him. Jesus was God's intervention. The old testament was sent to show us just how wrong and disobedient we are. We tend to forget that we are mear creatures and he is the creator. We are here to please God and the promise for turning to him is ever lasting life. If you want to call it a story, it makes much sense. It is worth taking a look into or at least reading what alernaive awaits you.
sad.gif
Since I looked into it, my life has never been the same. Everything starts to make sense. When you finally get it, you won't care much about man's wisdom called science.
 
  • #173
If you're talking about healling... I could lists instance after instance that would be as long if not longer than my topic about the prophecy of Tyre.
biggrin.gif
Also God put us here and wants us to use science to learn more about His creation. That was His original intent when he gave us the minds that he gave us.

Respectfully,
Wes
 
  • #174
Lord. I started reading this topic from the beginning, when I noticed it was 6 pages long! But, I do believe in evolution. But, (and this is from a Cristian prospective, and I'm not saying this is the only right way and please dont bite my head off) I believe other more influental forces besides nature haveto drive it. For instance, wolves would have never evolved into dogs the way they did if it weren't for man specifically breeding them, and changing the species into something of man's design. I believe that god does the same thing in our universe, but on a much larger scale, by changing the path of a living creature through different means (environment, death, mutation, etc.), and thus forming his own creations through evolution. In other words, god is the one who controls evolution from the first possible point in the chain of events leading to the change of the organism. Call me crazy if you want, but that's what I believe.
 
  • #175
I just read a couple of the first post...so I dunno where this is at...but I want to say that I believe evolution is a design God planned to happen. He gave plants and animals the ability to change, or evolve to live, and not die off. I don't think God enjoys death...one organism..or an entire species. I do not believe that there was just carbon and it "evoloved" into what the world is today. God enjoys all that he has made and gave them the ability to change...to live.
 
  • #176
I guess that's a popular belief
biggrin.gif
. Even though it sounds different, I think we believe in the same thing Cerius. And, could a mod move this topic to the general discussions forum? I think it belongs there more.
 
Back
Top