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Thread: On cultivars...

  1. #1

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    I just finished reading the "Fang" thread in the VFT section here, and I wanted to give my opinion, for what it's worth. I think it warrants a new topic.

    First, I'm sure everyone has come across some obviously wacky, useless cultivars. Names like "creeping death," for example, refer to some mythical plant that nobody sells or has a verified pic of (correct me if I'm wrong, of course). Also, obviously dumb names like "vigorous" should clue you in to how... normal the VFT is. Also, "giant." Giant what? Giant traps? Giant in general? Keep in mind that the longer you successfully keep a VFT, generally the more healthy, happy, and vigorous it looks (in my experience).

    If you want a vigorous, larger VFT variety, go with the green dragon. But there's an interesting point here. To my knowledge, green dragon is NOT a registered cultivar. And yet here's an obviously cool, pretty distinctive plant! So on the one hand, we have cultivars that are obviously pretty lame. But to buy in to the belief that only registered cultivars are worth pursuing is equally lame. Here are some unregistered ones that prove this point:

    Cup Trap--Obviously Distinctive
    Fused Teeth--Obviously Distinctive
    Green Dragon--Of Course!
    Royal Red--Probably registered in Australia though...
    Pink Venus--Beautiful new australian all purple cultivar.

    I'm sure there's more that I'm forgetting...

    And here's my personal most-annoying-goofball-cultivar:

    Fine tooth x Red

    Maybe some of you have this and like it. Kudos. Unfortunately, where are the parent plants?? What typical flytrap have you seen without fine teeth? Do most have fat teeth? And what red? I've heard of royal, regal, dutch, etc etc. D. Muscipula "Red" is a pretty amorphous, nonspecific name.

    So I guess my purpose is to demonstrate that trying to find every cultivar out there is a big waste of time as you'll end up with lots of plants that lack distinction from the "typical" variety. But avoid the arrogance of *just* going after the ones that some guy has bothered to punch into a computer. My advice? Look at the pictures, and make sure it looks neat or distinctive, and go for it. Just don't waste time looking for D. Muscipula "Jake Moriarty Giant" and so on. [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif[/img]

    Jake

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    Fine tooth x Red is a hybrid if i'm not mistaken.

    You can find a pic of a 'creeping death' at:

    Creeping Death pic

    I'd show you a pic of mine, but I need a camera that works ( [img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif[/img] ) and it's still a tad small to truly warrant the name.
    Lithops care info: If you take care of it, it will die.

  3. #3
    larry's Avatar
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    Creeping Death does exists. Whether it really does creep, I don't know. I just recently obtained this plant, so we'll see how it looks at the end of this year.
    larry
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  4. #4
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    Quote (jake moriarty @ April 21 2003,07:24)
    So on the one hand, we have cultivars that are obviously pretty lame. But to buy in to the belief that only registered cultivars are worth pursuing is equally lame. Here are some unregistered ones that prove this point:

    Cup Trap--Obviously Distinctive
    Fused Teeth--Obviously Distinctive
    Green Dragon--Of Course!
    Royal Red--Probably registered in Australia though...
    Pink Venus--Beautiful new australian all purple cultivar.[/QUOTE]
    Not to split hairs but, you have to be cautious with your use of the word, "cultivar." A cultivar is a plant that is described in a published periodical or book and registered with the IRA of that genus. When you mention "cultivar," I think you are referring to plants that aren't registered cultivars. Further, of the plants you mention, 'Fused Tooth' and 'Royal Red' are cultivars, the others aren't (yet&#33[img]http://www.**********.com/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif[/img].

    I'm not sure if you're referring to my comments in the "Fang" post. I agree that some cultivars are lame, and some plants that aren't cultivars are worth pursuing. My point is that, many of the plants that people have informally named are not unique enough to formally name, as a cultivar. Germinate 50 seeds and you'll find plenty of variation in color, size, and habit. While some might be attractive, are they "unique" from the typical variation of vfts? Probably not. This is my argument with many of these vfts that are mentioned. Usually, they are nothing more than typical variation. If I've read your comments correctly, you've stated a similar argument.
    The variant, "Creeping Death," looks like it might be etiolated from a lack of light. I understand that the plant is currently being evaluated for this character. In full sunlight if the plant retains these long, thin petioles, it could potentially be published and registered as a cultivar. It's distinctive characteristic is "unique" from the typical. This has nothing to do with it's worth in pursuing. Personally, I like some of the photos of seen of this plant.
    imduff

  5. #5
    Tony Paroubek's Avatar
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    I agree to some extent but the use of applying a cultivar name even unofficially is fairly straight forward. It allows one to keep genetic lineage and origin intact as plants are propagated and circulated among hobbyist. Whether you give a plant a fancy name or just a number or letter makes no difference. Any time a vegatively propagated plant is circulated it should have some identifying 'name' in my opinion.

    Tony
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    Angry

    Something has really been bothering me lately. It seems like regardless of which stance I take, someone corrects me. I'm really sick of being caught up in false info and opinyons so I would REALLY like a strait answer from someone who knows the textbook definition. Okay here are the questions:

    1)A varient is any registerd or unregisterd cultivar, yes?

    2)Is a cultivar a specific clone or any plant that fits the standard?(this is the the big one)

    3)What do you call a group of plants that fit a standard but can be reproduced sexually to get more like them?
    There is no item greater in value than life, for without life value would cease to exist.
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  7. #7

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    On a tangent, it's killing me that on another forum someone's post is asking:

    "looking for any of the VFT spider forms"

    Notice the plural? This is going to end up causing a whole lot more confusion than just one unregistered name.
    Lithops care info: If you take care of it, it will die.

  8. #8
    Tony Paroubek's Avatar
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    Never heard of spider forms.. amazing how someone says something and it just spreads.. like wow a new form.. yeah right.

    Uhh not sure what the problem is Darcie.. This is the first post you have made in this topic. To try and answer your questions

    A variety does not have to be registered. It is merely a plant differing from the normal type by some observable trait.

    In almost all cases a cultivar is a specific plant. ICPS says you can call two plants the same thing even if they are from completely different backgrounds as long as they fit the registered description. I think this is baloney and completely wipes out a plants history.

    In the case of a population of plants all breeding true you are actually closer to having genetic uniformity than just calling two unrelated plants the same thing simply because they look similar to our eye. Simply because if they are reproducing sexually and uniform then they must have genetic uniformity or they would not produce a uniform result. I can see here that you would have a single name to differentiate the plants from the typical form.

    Tony
    Is that a Nepenthes in your pocket or you just happy to see me?

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