TerraForums Venus Flytrap, Nepenthes, Drosera and more talk
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BigCarnivourKid
It's been one of dem days
Don't put them in a ziplock bag unless you are going to put them in the refridgerator for dormancy. The lack of air circulation, darkness, high humidity and mild temps is a great way to grow fungus. The short, ground hugging leaves are the autumn leaves but don't necesarily mean the plant is dormant. Cool temps and long nights cause the plant to go dormant. If possible, I would try to find a spot that gets a little cooler than 65°f. The average temp where they grow naturally is between 38° and 60°f during December. During the end of February and into March the temps climb into the mid 40°f to mid 60°f range.
That is the winter rosette. Flytraps typically take on this form during its winter. It doesn't always freeze where the VFT lives, and it can still grow through a mild winter. Many people believe that it needs dormancy every year, but it doesn't. It helps to give it temps cold enough for it to completely shut down every couple of years to imitate its habitat. An average winter in North Carolina can be 35 to 45 degrees, but can freeze too. Watch the plant carefully, and see how it reacts to where it is. Learn to read the plant. Its better than a book, because you learn more about the plant itself, and books are limited in this scope. Personal experience will outweigh any book.
[b said:
hmmmm..I wouldnt go quite so far as to state that as an absolute fact.
I think thats pushing the controversary a bit too far.
suppose I said "Many people believe that it doesent need dormancy every year, but it does."
would you question that?
I dont think either of us can make such absolute statements as facts..
it would be much better to tell people:
"VFTs might be able to skip one year of dormancy without ill effects, it has been done, but do so at your own (and your plant's) risk"
Scot,
yes, I am the "fact police"
well, "cooler temps" is still a form of dormancy isnt it?[b said:
there is a huge difference between "cooler temps" in the wild and "staying in a terrarium with bright light and 75 degrees for a solid year" which is the growing conditions most of the people have that want to skip a year..
you are not really talking about NO dormancy at all..
you are not really talking about a literal "skipping" of a year with continued summer conditions, bright light, long days, high temps, all winter..
cool temps outdoors, or in a greenhouse with shorter days and less light, is not skipping a year..
im concerned with inexperienced brand-new growers thinking its OK to leave their VFT in the living room window, or the bright, warm, terrarium, all winter because they keep reading that people say "you can skip a year"..
your experience with "skipping a year" isnt really the same thing as 12 year old with a first VFT who wants to "skip a year"..
I just dont think its a good idea to keep throwing around the idea thats its "PERFECTLY OK!"
it isnt..
it should only be done as a last resort.
and ideally, it should never be done at all..
but people arent hearing that..all newbies seem to be getting is "its fine to skip a year, go ahead! it wont hurt your plant AT ALL!"
its just not true!!!
it could hurt the plant a lot!
you need to be more carefull with how things are explained..
the title of this thread is "Dormancy by the windowsill?"..
the person posting that question might get the idea that "dormancy by the windowsill" is perfectly fine and healthy and ok..because "you can skip a year"..
well, "dormancy by the windowsill" is a very very bad idea..
thats the idea im trying to get across..and people insist on fighting me on it, I dont understand why..
is "dormancy by the windowsill" ok or not??
never mind me and the personal issues some people have with me..focus on the plant.
is it a good idea or not?
the answer is obvious..
it might work ok..but its certainly not a great idea.
it might work as a last resort if thats the best you can do..
yes yes..I know if its a COOL window it *might* be ok...
I know it *might* work for dormancy..
but thats not the issue here..
the issue here is everyone saying "YOU CAN SKIP A YEAR"!
well..maybe you can and *maybe* your plant will live if you do..
but just dont say its "perfectly OK"!!
its not!
what is so hard about this??
Scot
I think the controversy stems from what is dormancy or isn't dormancy. My VFT have been in my greenhouse for years. During the Winter it is 74 during the day and 58 at night. On a sunny day it will be in the low 80s day.
My plants are dormant! They do it every year. They flower in the Spring. They make typical leaves for each season. Come October roughly, some start dying back and making tiny winter rosettes while some don't (it depends on the variety). Some still have lots of Summer leaves but down in the center they still have small short Winter leaves. VFT do not need near freezing temperatures for prolonged periods of time to get sufficient annual rest. Sticking them under artificial conditions with 14 hour days and constant warm temperatures, when they should be in a Winter growth phase, however is entirely different. I don't recommend anyone try and trick their plants with Summer like conditions during the Winter months.
Tony
My plants are dormant! They do it every year. They flower in the Spring. They make typical leaves for each season. Come October roughly, some start dying back and making tiny winter rosettes while some don't (it depends on the variety). Some still have lots of Summer leaves but down in the center they still have small short Winter leaves. VFT do not need near freezing temperatures for prolonged periods of time to get sufficient annual rest. Sticking them under artificial conditions with 14 hour days and constant warm temperatures, when they should be in a Winter growth phase, however is entirely different. I don't recommend anyone try and trick their plants with Summer like conditions during the Winter months.
Tony
Scotty, Perhaps the word dormancy is the problem. All I can say is the plants I have growing here in my bog gardens, knock completely out if the temp gets down to freezing (32degreesF). No growth of any kind, very compact rosettes. If we have a mild winter, they continue to grow, albeit very slowly, and this year, late flowering scapes as well. We got hit with a freeze for 3 days, and I thought sure they would sleep. But, no. They are STILL growing. Maybe this slow growing phase is a form of semi-dormancy. We have hard freezes (2 weeks or more) every 3 to 5 years, and the plants stop growth completely. Otherwise, they keep on keeping on, and I do not argue with that. Just adding to our experiences, I guess. I get your point Scot, but try to see what I am saying. Full dormancy may not be absolutely necessary.
I TOTALLY agree with that
but thats FULL dormancy..not NO dormancy..
big difference.
there are plently of people who want to attempt NO dormancy..
and they are getting the impression that everyone thinks thats perfectly fine..
what you describe for your plants might not be "full" dormancy..
but its cool temps and less light..
it could at least be considered "partial dormancy"..
and thats still a huge difference from 75 degrees on the windowsill or in the terrarium all winter.
all Im asking for is:
"at a minimum, cooler temps and less light should be provided in the winter..it is not advisable to skip dormancy completely and continue to provide summer-like conditions all winter."
"can skip a year" could be interpretated as "can skip a year!"
ok, enough of my rambling..we all have heard enough from me.
please just dont say "its ok to skip a year" without also saying "but you probably shoudnt skip a year, and here is why..."
thanks,
Scot
I just got my VFT's in July and I'm trying to skip dormancy this year in my terrarium and figured a way to get VFT's to grow year round in a terrarium.
By taking divisions off a main plant, you can keep growing VFT's year round. Maybe not huge plants, but just to have something to look at year round instead of a bare empty VFT terrarium.
The main plant you can put in dormancy by a windowsill or garage.
This is a example of indoor -vs- outdoor VFT effect on Long Island:
I got two Dente VFT's from Franks in July and let one grow outside in my minibog next to my Sarcanias and one grew inside my terrarium under a 65watt Compact Flourescent. The Fluorex one with 6500k spectrum. I placed the outdoor one on my windowsill and it's in somewhat of a slow growing dormant state. The indoor one thinks it's summer still and just sprouted two huge vertical trap growths. Also look at the color difference.
Windowsill:
Terrarium: The bottom middle one. Diagonally above it is it's division I took.
By taking divisions off a main plant, you can keep growing VFT's year round. Maybe not huge plants, but just to have something to look at year round instead of a bare empty VFT terrarium.
The main plant you can put in dormancy by a windowsill or garage.
This is a example of indoor -vs- outdoor VFT effect on Long Island:
I got two Dente VFT's from Franks in July and let one grow outside in my minibog next to my Sarcanias and one grew inside my terrarium under a 65watt Compact Flourescent. The Fluorex one with 6500k spectrum. I placed the outdoor one on my windowsill and it's in somewhat of a slow growing dormant state. The indoor one thinks it's summer still and just sprouted two huge vertical trap growths. Also look at the color difference.
Windowsill:
Terrarium: The bottom middle one. Diagonally above it is it's division I took.
Well hell. I have a few minutes. Here's what's happening with mine:
I placed the terrarium in the area I mentioned in the back of the house in the door. I'm able to maintain 70% humidity and a daytime temp of 70 deg with a night time temp around 35-45 degrees. I was mainly worried about the humidity because I'm in Denver (If I took out my sensor, it would drop from 70% to 20% in about two minutes).
The plants are darkening. not growing like they did. It's been a mild winter thusfar.
If anyone could please post a VFT in it's dormancy, I could compare to mine and see if it's OK.
Thanks.
I placed the terrarium in the area I mentioned in the back of the house in the door. I'm able to maintain 70% humidity and a daytime temp of 70 deg with a night time temp around 35-45 degrees. I was mainly worried about the humidity because I'm in Denver (If I took out my sensor, it would drop from 70% to 20% in about two minutes).
The plants are darkening. not growing like they did. It's been a mild winter thusfar.
If anyone could please post a VFT in it's dormancy, I could compare to mine and see if it's OK.
Thanks.
With moderate dormancy you will still see some slow growth of small leaves from the center of the plant. Mostly what is dead and dying back are the older Summer leaves.
As for your question. The plant will tell you. You will see increased growth in both speed and size of the leaves as the days lengthen and temperatures warm up.
Tony
As for your question. The plant will tell you. You will see increased growth in both speed and size of the leaves as the days lengthen and temperatures warm up.
Tony
