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Thread: G14 dirk ventham's giant

  1. #17
    zappafan's Avatar
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  2. #18

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    My favorite reason for growing venus flytraps is because they vary so much from one plant to another. Making crosses and pollinating plants hoping that they will make offspring that are more vigorous or something special makes growing these guys worth every single penny.
    But I still think it is worthwhile to collect named plants and cultivars, I have to agree that a lot of them are typicals named just because and are just as vigorous as any other vft. But there are some that just plain amaze me, and those are the ones I'm after. As Phil said, only having one growth point really does help gain bigger traps. I have noticed plants that have grown like a giant divide this season and grow ok sized traps but the bushy look is pretty cool too.
    I just stuff all my plants with any bugs that are available and this really seems to give them a great boost and the results are almost instant with the next trap growing bigger then the first.
    I thought you people where \"Plant Geeks\", Look at me Now...

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  3. #19

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    Peater you pretty much hit the nail on the head there when you said " there are some that just plain amaze me, and those are the ones I'm after."
    That is the way I feel. Why try to create something that is already done and is available. O ya alot are not readily available.

    If one is going to cross or self to get better traits you have to start with plants that have some of these traits to begin with, no. Why start at ground zero, crossing regular VFT's to get 100000 seeds and watch for that special one to stand out. I myself do not have the time and patience for that. I do however want to do some crossing ( of stuff that I like) to come up with maybe something special.

    Phil, not to try to make any enemies, but you kind of contradict your self when you say "We should stop trying so hard to hunt down every one of these personally named vft variants. As Bob mentioned earlier, many of these different clones are the same plant. There are many beautiful plants out there waiting to be married. One of the crosses I made this year was Pink Venus x Big Mouth (or Big Jaws, or whatever the heck it's now called. it has enormous purple-red traps). There are sure to be some fabulous offspring in this batch." You say we should stop but I just did it

    You and most likely every serious VFT grower has hunted down most if not all of the personally named vft variants to cross or just admire. I think growers that have most of the personally named vft's in there collection should have a little compassion when someone simply asks if something is available.

    I don't think I have ever herd people mention crossing some regular vft's to come up with something not regular, at this stage of the game. Why reinvent the wheel.
    I simply wish to acquire something that is a little different. So show me da money Just kidding.
    Some of you more seasoned growers and not, hold a great wealth of knowledge and I really do appreciate the help. So thank you.
    Who was the first to develop that different vft anyway and was it just made from crossing something found out in the swamp?
    Well thats all for now and if anyone has any more knowledge on how some of these special plants came about please share.
    Stephen D

  4. #20

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    Perhaps I didn't make myself clear enough last time. What I intended to say was that we should not limit ourselves to searching out "only" those named varieties to comprise our collections. Go ahead and do it. But once you have them create a breeding program to match them together. This is meant to enhance your "personal" mission to own a serious collection.

    In my 30+ years of growing I have purchased a total of 2, count them, 2 named varietal forms and both of them were from Tony; Pink Venus and Fang. The only other named varietal forms I have, that were obtained entirely as gifts, not even through trade, are Dentate form, Red Dragon, Green Dragon, Jaws. That's it. The remainder of the collection consists of clones I purchased over 15 years ago (more than likely wild collected) and the rest was created ENTIRELY by me by making selfings, sib crosses and cross pollinations.

    My main focus is to pursue a vision I have for a particular growth type, color or habit just like any other plant or flower breeder. Could be something I've seen on a thread before that gave me an idea, but most often they are not. I don't want any of the stuff that is floating around. I already have tons of plants that exhibit the same characteristics, but they were created entirely by me and each one is a separate seed raised clone which makes me that much more proud of them.

    My mention of crossing Pink Venus by Big Mouth is a perfect example. But I failed to mention that I was referring to a prized specimen I have that was seed raised and exhibits the same growth characteristics as the semi-commercial Big Mouth. I call mine Big Jaws for my own identification purposes. If this name has been used already then I appologize but I will continue to use this name as part of my breeding program. Incidentally....I selfed this plant several times and of the 600 plants I grew out, over 500 of them looked exactly like the mother plant; large 4-6 inch flat rosette with 1.75" traps with every possible color form I could want, including pure green. And this is only 1 of the many, many crosses I've made. I can only imagine what this Pink Venus cross will produce.

    So to defend myself (all in good fun of course), I am certainly NOT one of those people who has gone looking for and has obtained all the other stuff. I just make it myself. I find it extremely rewarding knowing that at the same time Leo Song created 'Jaws' I made the exact same cross using my form of "Big Jaws" crossed with 'Dentate form'. The 'Dentate form' is the only common denominator in both of our crosses and neither of us knows each other or knew that we were simultaneously creating a similar hybrid using two identical named varieties and two completely different large form clones. The only thing that matters to me is that I was pleased to see that someone else out there has the same philosophy and visions as I do but he chose to go public with it. I chose not to.

    It's all good folks. It's not about who's right or wrong. It's about taking a deep breath, sitting back and enjoying the hobby for what it is. However you choose to represent yourslef in the hobby, it is your vision. Do with it as you will and help others understand how many different ways it can work. No one way is right, just like growing them.

    Signing off this thread permanently...

    Peace Out-

  5. #21
    Cardiac Nurse JB_OrchidGuy's Avatar
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    Well, there is no doubt that mutations happen naturaly, but one can double the chromosomes of a plant in tissue culture using a chemical called colchicine. Its used in orchids all the time to make the plants with the label 4N. N represents the halfploid number. Everything is normaly 2N. When they have double chromosomes they are called 4N. The chemical inhibits the cells from splitting during mitosis, but they still double thier chromosomes. Then the chemical is removed and they start deviding like normal only they now have double chromosomes. Most 4N orchids are larger then thier 2N parents. As with orchids when you start getting into hybred you can have two hybred look almost identical but made with 2 different species parents. Thats why its so hard to identify a NoID hybred orchid. Amature growers don't go try to find or use colchicine unless you have expreance. It has a MSDS sheet a mile long with some nasty side effects. Its also used to treat gout.
    JB
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  6. #22

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    I have read this before, is it true that some if not most 4N orchids are sterile?
    Is this chemical used at the seed stage or during multiplication? If seed is made with one side 4N and the other 2N does the seed come out 2N? I do a little crossing of orchids and inquiring minds would like to know.
    Sorry about srtraying off of the origonal post but wat the hay.
    Thanks for any info.
    Stephen D

  7. #23

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    This talk of double chromosomes is related to gigantism according to a previous couple of posts. There is no true 'giant' VFT, just clones which have 5cm traps. This is no different from a person being 6' 2" tall.
    Alexis Vallance, U.K.
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  8. #24
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